brunofporto
Posts: 33
Joined: Wed Nov 29, 2017 7:36 am

S3D 4.1 - Still putting solid layers over air....

Tue Nov 06, 2018 9:57 am

This is an old issue for me :D
Captura de tela de 2018-11-06 12-53-43.png
screenshot
And then the first solid layer.....
Captura de tela de 2018-11-06 12-53-26.png
Screenshot
The first solid layer must go up to the infill borders at least.

As a reference try the same reference file with Slic3r PE



Factory file attached.

ps.: congratulations on the new bridging algorithm! That was another old complaint from my part that is solved for good with my old complicated parts :D

Bruno
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xyzCalibration_cube.factory
Factory file
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Raise3D Pro Plus 2
Posts: 66
Joined: Thu Oct 25, 2018 3:03 am

Re: S3D 4.1 - Still putting solid layers over air....

Tue Nov 06, 2018 11:08 am

Ha, I was get those issue with 4,01 today ;)

JD95
Posts: 34
Joined: Sun Sep 01, 2013 12:11 pm

Re: S3D 4.1 - Still putting solid layers over air....

Wed Nov 07, 2018 11:59 am

I complained about similar problems three years ago. It was improved in 3.x in some cases but the core problem remains.

I *know* there's ways the user can make that work, but I call those workarounds, it's asking the user to do tweak settings that I think could be a checkbox if not fixed automatically.

Honestly top layers should stitch over to the next support line from the layer below, if it's overhanging the layer below by a bead width or more. I know even a three year old version of Slic3r expands top layers for better results. Also, innermost perimeter bridges between infill lines when top layers should at least extend to the innermost perimeter and even to the infill line for the layer above.
Attachments
Screenshot 2018-11-07 10.23.44.PNG
Screenshot 2018-11-07 10.23.44.PNG (111.87 KiB) Viewed 1982 times
Snap_Legs 200pct ABS UM2 Go.factory
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top layer problems.jpg

JD95
Posts: 34
Joined: Sun Sep 01, 2013 12:11 pm

Re: S3D 4.1 - Still putting solid layers over air....

Wed Nov 07, 2018 12:09 pm

I can't tell what 4.1 improves in this regard when the feature update page says this has been improved. 4.1 seems to treat the top layer overhangs of this part the same way 4.0.1 does.
Attachments
minifig S3D 4.0.1.PNG
minifig S3D 4.1.PNG
Screenshot 2018-11-07 10.22.39.PNG

S3D-Alex
Posts: 423
Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2018 1:23 pm

Re: S3D 4.1 - Still putting solid layers over air....

Wed Nov 07, 2018 2:34 pm

Thank you for all the great suggestions! The Intelligent Solid Layers update is a reference to the way perimeters and solid layers are joined in the Z-axis going forward. The Solid Layers will now extend to the width of ALL the perimeters to ensure a strong bond between these features making it a stronger part overall. The infill changes you suggested are definitely something we will consider for future releases!

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dkightley
Posts: 2255
Joined: Tue Mar 10, 2015 4:09 pm

Re: S3D 4.1 - Still putting solid layers over air....

Wed Nov 07, 2018 6:58 pm

Alex...

The issue reported here has been like this for a very long time..and has been reported quite rightly as a BUG several times. Basically, the soild infill is being extruded so it hangs over fresh air at the point where the extruder does an about-turn...resulting is sagging if you have sparse infill below it.

What's needed is a "bridging" extrusion laying down first along the edge of where the solid layer ends...so the filament has something to stick to when the extruder does it's turn-around.

I consider this as being a long-standing deficiency (call it a bug if you like) that needs addressing NOW and not an idea for improvement that may or may not be considered for a future release!
Doug Kightley
Volunteer at the National Tramway Museum http://www.tramway.co.uk
Railway modeller and webmaster at http://www.talkingtgauge.net

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mntbighker
Posts: 33
Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2018 7:33 pm
Location: Silicone Valley

Re: S3D 4.1 - Still putting solid layers over air....

Wed Nov 07, 2018 7:23 pm

dkightley wrote:
Wed Nov 07, 2018 6:58 pm

I consider this as being a long-standing deficiency (call it a bug if you like) that needs addressing NOW and not an idea for improvement that may or may not be considered for a future release!
Wish I could "upvote" comments like this..
Scratch built CoreXY with Duet Maestro
Heavily modified Ender 3 with Duet Maestro
MPCNC work in progress with Duet WiFi

blackbird2016
Posts: 134
Joined: Wed Aug 02, 2017 1:24 am

Re: S3D 4.1 - Still putting solid layers over air....

Thu Nov 08, 2018 1:55 am

dkightley wrote:
Wed Nov 07, 2018 6:58 pm
.............
The issue reported here has been like this for a very long time..and has been reported quite rightly as a BUG several times. Basically, the soild infill is being extruded so it hangs over fresh air at the point where the extruder does an about-turn...resulting is sagging if you have sparse infill below it.
.............................
I consider this as being a long-standing deficiency (call it a bug if you like) that needs addressing NOW and not an idea for improvement that may or may not be considered for a future release!
I couldn´t agree more!
See here viewtopic.php?f=23&t=7906&p=34918#p33942
and here viewtopic.php?f=23&t=7978
both from August 2017.
The second one I opened myself and got in contact with support, too.
So there is no chance that nobody should have not been aware of this obvious problem (bug).
Back then support suggested to use more top layers. (I used 5 or 6)
Sure, 50+ top layers could be the solution.....

And still they at least did something. (seemingly mostly "under the hood")
I did some test prints yesterday and it looks like the startpoint/z-seam is handled somewhat differently.
It looks less prominent and observing my print I even noticed that my printer sounds different/calmer. (really! I hear such things :shock: )
I also observed that the movements are handled better or say more reasonable.

But it is sad, that this release was announced as major update and people expecting new functions like say "gyroid infill" or
"extra extrusion multiplier for toplayers" or what ever else is mentioned here as feature requests. Lots of those reasonable!
For me it seems the focus here is on improvements of multiple extruders and/or sequential printing which may be of
use for one or the other but IMHO is nothing more as a bugfix since those things have not been working exactly perfect ever since...
It is disappointing that there is not one (not even one more button, checkbox or function) in this release.
Jerk and acceleration control, M900 Linear advance directly in the GUI e.g, just to mention a few possibilities.

Slicer Prusa Edition meanwhile having individual support control is a very good slicer with perfect printing results.
Being lazy as I am I couldn´t overcome myself switching completely to a different software whith an absolutely different workflow.
And still, considering the speed things are developing and a "major" update which is seemingly untested and undeniable full of bugs
I just might do so...
But who cares, I paid my bucks some years ago.

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