whpthomas
Posts: 4
Joined: Sun May 12, 2013 10:03 am

[ADDED] Please fix 5D printer support

Tue Oct 01, 2013 6:04 pm

While I am pleased that Enginwiz has managed to figure out how to get S3DCreator to print reliably with proper extrusion values on makerbot printers, the amount of effort he has had to put into this is inconsistent with S3DCreator's marketing claims - "Experience a new level of integrated simplicity for all your 3D printing needs."

I would really like Simplify3D to fix this, or at least provide an option that we can enable to support 5D printing as we understand it. However rather than just complain, I am quite prepared to provide some assistance with a solution.

This is how Skeinforge and GPX calculate 5D E values. This approach works reliably, it scales correctly with changes to the layer hight, nozzle diameter and packing_density, and uses variables that are commonly understood by the wider 3D printing community.

1) First we calculate the G0/1 travel distance in mm

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distance = sqrt(delta_x * delta_x + delta_y * delta_y);
2) Next we calculate the packing area where the packing_density is 0.85 for ABS and 0.97 for PLA

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packing_area = PI * filament_radius * filament_radius * packing_density;
3) Next we calculate the packing scale

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packing_scale = nozzle_diameter * layer_height / packing_area;
4) Finally we calculate the extrusion distance which becomes the E value in mm for the G0/1 output

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delta_e = distance * packing_scale;
I do not believe that it will be difficult to retrofit this code into S3DCreator as an output option. I and many other Makerbot printer owners would really appreciate it if these changes could be made. It would make S3DCreator output more flexible, precise and understandable, and make it much easier to recommend S3DCreator to other users without qualification.

Kind regards,

Dr. Henry Thomas - developer of GPX

Jetguy
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Oct 01, 2013 7:53 pm

Re: Please fix 5D printer support

Tue Oct 01, 2013 8:05 pm

I fully agree. I know it's been said the stock profiles should work but between the Replicator 1 and the Ulti-Replicator which both use standard heads and Sailfish firmware, it's clear the calc for extrusion is not working correctly. I know Enginwiz did a great favor with some tuned profiles, but even then, it's just not the best way.
Using the supplied stock profiles results in thin roofs and floors. Simply put, there just isn't the correct volume of extrusion.
Enginwiz's profiles are great, but are for the Replicator 2 and are not profiles, they are complete environments. To use them with a heated bed a lot of modifications are required.


I realize this is the one software trying to work with both camps (Reprap and MakerBot), so if a mode switch is required to keep both camps happy then that's fine, but I really hope this suggestion gets some traction.

Nextgen3D
Posts: 14
Joined: Wed Sep 18, 2013 1:01 pm

Re: Please fix 5D printer support

Wed Oct 02, 2013 10:58 am

I total agree with the above points. It took me a while to setup a ABS 0.2mm profile to a standard similar to that MakerWare.

Since then I have found Enginwiz's profiles, which are really going to help in the future.

I really like this slicer, it's got a great user interface and you feel totally in control. The graphical preview alone has already saved me on a couple of instances.

It would be a shame to loose potential Makerbot users who try your product, but right it off after the first couple of prints do to poor results.

brucethehoon
Posts: 10
Joined: Fri May 10, 2013 10:51 pm

Re: Please fix 5D printer support

Wed Oct 02, 2013 3:24 pm

I'd like to echo the sentiments above. As a reasonably early adopter of S3D, I've been frustrated by not being able to get consistently good results on my Rep1 dual no matter how much tweaking I've done. After you added Whpthomas's excellent GPX converter, things got much better, but we're still not quite there yet.

I'd really appreciate it if these changes could be evaluated and implemented ASAP!

Enginwiz
Posts: 12
Joined: Sat Sep 07, 2013 4:03 pm

Re: Please fix 5D printer support

Wed Oct 02, 2013 4:37 pm

My try-and-error calibration for a fixed extrusion width of 0,4mm and certain layer heights is only a workaround.

What we would need is Auto Extrusion Rate or 5D as explained by Wingcommander.

whpthomas
Posts: 4
Joined: Sun May 12, 2013 10:03 am

Re: Please fix 5D printer support

Wed Oct 02, 2013 11:32 pm

In the mean time, there is a way to hack S3DCreator with GPX to get 5D output that is equivalent to ReplicatorG/Skeinforge

In your gpx.ini file (in the S3Dcreator folder) under the [printer] section add the following option:

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recalculate_5d=1
packing_density=0.97
filament_diameter=1.75
Then in S3DCreator, under the extruder tab, you need to set
  • Extrusion Diameter = 0.4
    Auto Extrusion Width = 0.4
    Extrusion Multiplier = 0.4
    Retraction Vertical Lift = 0.0
This tells GPX to rewrite G0/1 gcodes with recalculated 5D values. However for things like supports that my have different flow rates it may not work, but for regular printing it works quite well. However I would run a test print first just to conform the settings.

whpthomas
Posts: 4
Joined: Sun May 12, 2013 10:03 am

Re: Please fix 5D printer support

Wed Oct 23, 2013 9:24 am

Any news on whether 5D support is under consideration?

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jimc
Posts: 1124
Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2013 11:02 pm
Location: mullica, nj
Contact: Website

Re: Please fix 5D printer support

Wed Oct 23, 2013 8:38 pm

no one here on the forum will have an answer to that. we know as much as you. you should email support

brucethehoon
Posts: 10
Joined: Fri May 10, 2013 10:51 pm

Re: Please fix 5D printer support

Sat Oct 26, 2013 12:39 am

no one here on the forum will have an answer to that. we know as much as you. you should email support

On that note, I did email Clayton and got this response a couple days later:

I appreciate you making me aware of that thread. The next revision of the software will include several major improvements for the Makerbot machines including better 5D support as whpthomas described. We are also adding direct USB control, improved profiles, and a host of other goodies.

That version is being tested now, so we hope it will be available to the public shortly.

S3D-Jason
Posts: 302
Joined: Sun May 31, 2015 6:01 am

Re: Please fix 5D printer support

Thu Jul 09, 2015 7:27 am

Version 2.0 greatly improved 5D support and resolved these issues.

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