arhi
Posts: 405
Joined: Thu Oct 06, 2016 5:13 pm

Re: Slicer behavior for thin walled sections

Thu Oct 13, 2016 6:06 pm

dorsai3d wrote:
arhi wrote:Take this simple example, 0.8mm 8 year old nozzle jammed into crappy rapman extruder prints PP reliably 0.1mm to 1.2mm wide wall in "single go" .. so if you thin wall is 0.1mm it will print it and it will be 0.1mm, if your wall is 0.3mm it will print it again in single go, no need to make 3 0.1mm lines to do it (and definitely don't need to vibrate the hack out of the printer to do it) same for 0.32mm or 0.51mm or 1.15mm or 1.2mm .. each of them can be printed in one single line
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. I want to believe, but I've never gotten reliable results printing single walls at anything below about 60% of nozzle width, and that even only works in certain cases. Physics just isn't on our side for this.
There should be pictures and surely texts about it on the old bfb forum that's cached on the internet (dead since they sold their souls) ... but yes I can't print ABS below xx% of the nozzle width but PP, PP stretches like crazy, you can print as thin as you like :D .. the problem with PP is that it will pull the filament out of the nozzle, it doesn't snap that easy ... I should get more PP in next few weeks I'll send you pics if you like :D .. PP - easy, ABS - not that much .. but still you say you can get 60% reliably ? on a 0.35mm nozzle that's .2mm, lets say 0.25mm for 0.4mm nozzle and you can, easily print 100% of the nozzle size, even 120% should not be a problem for ABS if you have a flat tip nozzle, but 100% you'll get even with a pointy one, so we'r talking 0.25 - 0.4mm span of a wall thickness. So you can print easily
0.25mm, 0.3, 0.35, 0.4mm, 0.5mm, 0.55, 0.60... walls without a problem ... only between 0.4 and 0.5 you have a problem to put any size between them .. but that limit I'll survive :D so from 0.25mm till 0.8mm wall you can print with 1 or 2 lines or till 1.2mm with up to 3 line, no shaking, no holes, no gaps, no problems...

@gruvin, I doubt nothing is going on as I seen somewhere add that they are hiring ... I hope they are hiring developers and not management :D
as for thin wall, UP! from TT have a detection of thin wall but the only option you have is a check box - on/off, if it's off part is "correct in size", if it's on the part will be a bit "thicker" (can be wrong in size by the half of the wall thickness on all sides) and then it will print any wall thinner then 1 wall size with 1 wall size line
gcodestat integrates with Simplify3D and allow you to
Calculate print time accurately (acceleration, max speed, junction deviation all taken into consideration)
Embed M117 codes into G-Code
Upload your G-Code directly to Octoprint
open source and unlicence

TheRiddick
Posts: 29
Joined: Sat Jan 16, 2016 8:49 am

Re: Slicer behavior for thin walled sections

Tue Dec 13, 2016 2:08 am

Just made a model that has 0.4mm sized walls inside for basic support, and it won't print them. Probably should have stuck with 0.5mm wall for those bits, but in the end its pretty bad limit on this software, these wall structures are only there to help the print, I don't need them laser accuracy like some people seem to think is the ONLY way you should print... 0.39mm 0.4mm whats the difference? ALL my printers are FDM, they have up to 0.05mm inaccuracy if not more by default.


PS. Just using a minor horizontal expansion works for minor issues like mine current print.

robj
Posts: 3
Joined: Tue Aug 18, 2015 7:13 am

Re: Slicer behavior for thin walled sections

Tue Dec 13, 2016 6:08 am

+1 for end user option to "print below minimum width" type setting.

mikedlang
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2016 4:24 pm

Re: Slicer behavior for thin walled sections

Tue Dec 20, 2016 4:29 pm

I've given up and am actually somewhat angry at S3D for their lack of concern addressing this issue. I'm a commercial user developing prototypes and I can't redesign parts to make poor thin wall behavior work. Slic3r does exactly what I want it to when it comes to thin walls so I've quit using S3D and reverted back to Slic3r.

It's too bad really, S3D is better in so many ways but for me this issue is a deal breaker.

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dkightley
Posts: 2080
Joined: Tue Mar 10, 2015 4:09 pm

Re: Slicer behavior for thin walled sections

Tue Dec 20, 2016 6:39 pm

It's that time of year when you hear "Chestnuts roasting on an open fire...." Old chestnuts, that is! :roll:

Do I need to say any more? ;)
Doug Kightley
Volunteer at the National Tramway Museum http://www.tramway.co.uk
Railway modeller and webmaster at http://www.talkingtgauge.net

pkupmanvt
Posts: 1
Joined: Fri Dec 23, 2016 10:19 am

Re: Slicer behavior for thin walled sections

Sat Dec 24, 2016 2:52 pm

As a new user to S3D I ran into this issue this week.. I have read and tried everything I could find on an issue with my ABS corners lifting as soon as the nozzle gets near them (even when they don't start until a long ways up from the plate). It really looks like too much plastic is being forced into too small of an area, so I tried the 20mm calibration square (before finding out that's not acceptable with S3D). If I set the extrusion modifier down at 52% I get absolutely beautiful 0.46 to 0.5 walls that look amazing (0.4 nozzle), so I know the hardware is capable of creating such things. Set to S3D's calibration method those same walls come out at almost a full millimeter... However if I print like that, as you all have probably witnessed, the perimeter shells do not merge with each other... I decided to get this software based on all the various forum members who swear by it, but after being told in an email that the company can give no details whatsoever as to future feature development or even a rough estimate of when they intend to push their next update I can assure you I'm not jumping on the praise band wagon.
As a CNC machinist/programmer I have used quality CAM programs, and really thought by the reviews and cost that this software would resolve my issue of having to use multiple slicers for different types of parts. Hopefully the next release comes soon, and addresses many of the hot topics here in their own forum.

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SteveIsHeer
Posts: 48
Joined: Thu Sep 24, 2015 5:45 pm

Re: Slicer behavior for thin walled sections

Wed Dec 28, 2016 4:18 pm

I agree this issue needs to be addressed. I can successfully print thin walls on my Dremel 3D printer with the Dremel printing software which has a nozzle size of 0.4 and uses slic3r as the slicing program. Slic3r correctly adjusts the wall thickness to enable the plastic to print, whether accurate or not, it prints the walls. S3D on the other hand ignores the thin walls like the plague. The picture shows the S3D printed version of this model (grey) still on the print bed with the same model printed on the Dremel sitting next to it (Blue). The Dremel software has very few settings compared to S3D yet it prints this model without changing a single setting.
This proves that software can be made to accommodate the thin wall issue. What I don't understand is why S3D developers are ignoring this feature request for such a long time now. I tried printing the Alduin Wall statue from Skyrim and it never printed the wings at all, even though the model is a fair size model. Wasted a third of a spool on that model because of the underlying issue S3D has with thin walls.

The model can be found here: http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:597194
PLA-Dart.JPG
It show's to go you how feelish you fool when your tang is all tungled up and you bart stalking tackwards!

dennisjm
Posts: 342
Joined: Wed May 07, 2014 9:51 pm

Re: Slicer behavior for thin walled sections

Sat Dec 31, 2016 10:42 am

+1 for fixing. I'm printing with MakerBot right now because the model has some thin pre-built in support structures. I kept lowering the nozzle manual width down from .4 to .35 .3 etc and it wasn't picking them up.... so I just switched to makerbot and it's printing fine.

So yes, printers can do this-> software should reflect that.

Thanks for continuing to develop a fine product.

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dkightley
Posts: 2080
Joined: Tue Mar 10, 2015 4:09 pm

Re: Slicer behavior for thin walled sections

Mon Jan 16, 2017 11:03 am

There may be light on the horizon re the issue with the S3D slicer failing to process models with walls thinner than one extruder width.........but not from S3D! :roll: :roll:

Take a look at the post in this thread from Makeprintable.com....:

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=6705&p=29135#p29135
Doug Kightley
Volunteer at the National Tramway Museum http://www.tramway.co.uk
Railway modeller and webmaster at http://www.talkingtgauge.net

mroek
Posts: 146
Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2015 1:47 pm

Re: Slicer behavior for thin walled sections

Mon Jan 16, 2017 6:01 pm

While that's good news, it still doesn't make up for S3Ds stupid behaviour in this regard. I don't want to run models through a 3rd-party service when I have a rather expensive piece of software installed that should handle this all by itself. And also, this thread isn't just about walls that are below the extrusion width, it is also about the annoying wiggle fill that S3D insists on using if the number of perimeters isn't an even number. A wall that is a perfect multiple of the extrusion width should never need to have that crappy wiggle fill.

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