Horizontal lines in test tower

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InspGadgt
 
Posts: 16
Joined: Wed Oct 18, 2017 6:59 pm

Horizontal lines in test tower

Sun Nov 12, 2017 4:54 pm

Hi all,

I just upgraded my Anet A8 with a BLTouch and the latest Marlin firmware so I'm trying to tune it in again. When printing a test tower there are very distinct lines or ridges in the print. It looks as if every 3rd or 4th layer the line thickness changes. When I slice it with Cura 2.7 it doesn't have this problem...only in Simplify3D. So it must be some setting I'm not getting right but I'm not sure which ones to look at as they all look normal to me. I hope someone can help me figure this out...it's quite irritating. See the attached pic...Cura sliced on the left, Simplify3D on the right.
Attachments
20171112_084717.jpg

horst.w
 
Posts: 336
Joined: Fri Oct 17, 2014 4:00 pm

Re: Horizontal lines in test tower

Sun Nov 12, 2017 5:28 pm

In S3D is no setting implemented that can cause or that can avoid this issue.
Normally I would say it is an issue of the Z-axis but so as you have reported it is not possible.
The lines or ridges in the print are going around the tower?

New firmware may be as well as a new printer. Do you have imported a new printer profile to S3D?

I have no idea what happens there.
Can you please attache your factory-file? and also the STL-file

Regards
horst.w
GER

arhi
 
Posts: 184
Joined: Thu Oct 06, 2016 4:13 pm

Re: Horizontal lines in test tower

Sun Nov 12, 2017 9:18 pm

look at the g-code generated in cure, check in startup section if you have acceleration settings ... search for M201 and M204 and M205 ..
then look for same codes in g-code generated by the s3d, then look at the process settings in s3d, advanced has to be on, scripts tab, starting script, see if you have any of those codes there..

basically the "lines" you see there are Z axis missalignments and the only way I think you can get those different on the same printer is if you are having too high accel/jerk settings so that those get pronounced ... so you probbly have cure lower the accel/jerk settings at the beginning of your g-code...

look in cura "speed" section, "enable acceleration control" - is this on? also "enable jerk control"? if it is, find the "smallest" numbers and use them in s3d (you have to generate a startup script for s3d manually). unfortunately s3d don't support controlling of acceleration for different segments of the print like cura

so find slowest jerk and acceleration settings in cura (as they obviously work for you) and generate startup script for s3d to set up those values. you will have to generate code yourself. use 205 for jerk: http://marlinfw.org/docs/gcode/M205.html and M201 for acceleration http://marlinfw.org/docs/gcode/M201.html

for e.g. if you find that smallest accel value in acceleration is 800mm/s2 and smallest jerk is 10mm/s you add th "startup script" in s3d something like:
Code: Select all
M201 X800 Y800 ; I don't think you need to change Z and E
M205 X10 Y10


the print from s3d will be probably bit slower (as with cura you can setup different accel values for different features so for e.g. you can print infill with higher acceleration and invisible wall sections with higher acceleration then visible wall) then from cura but you will achieve same (or better) print quality
Attachments
Capture.JPG
speed/acceleration
speed/jerk
from cura

wirlybird
 
Posts: 594
Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2016 12:32 pm

Re: Horizontal lines in test tower

Mon Nov 13, 2017 6:45 am

I think it's on the layer tab but try setting the start position to the third option, specific point and see if it improves it. I see this a lot on "square" objects. S3D seems to have an issue with how it starts the corners.
If it helps then you could try just a small amount of negative restart like -0.1 but remember that negative restart can also have an effect on other areas depending on the model.

InspGadgt
 
Posts: 16
Joined: Wed Oct 18, 2017 6:59 pm

Re: Horizontal lines in test tower

Tue Nov 14, 2017 3:33 am

horst.w wrote:In S3D is no setting implemented that can cause or that can avoid this issue.
Normally I would say it is an issue of the Z-axis but so as you have reported it is not possible.
The lines or ridges in the print are going around the tower?

New firmware may be as well as a new printer. Do you have imported a new printer profile to S3D?

I have no idea what happens there.
Can you please attache your factory-file? and also the STL-file

Regards
horst.w
GER


I did not import a new profile into Simplify3D...Which would I use if not the one for the Anet A8? I did import the config files for the Anet A8 into Marlin since they already had a setup for it.

InspGadgt
 
Posts: 16
Joined: Wed Oct 18, 2017 6:59 pm

Re: Horizontal lines in test tower

Tue Nov 14, 2017 3:50 am

arhi wrote:look at the g-code generated in cure, check in startup section if you have acceleration settings ... search for M201 and M204 and M205 ..
then look for same codes in g-code generated by the s3d, then look at the process settings in s3d, advanced has to be on, scripts tab, starting script, see if you have any of those codes there..

basically the "lines" you see there are Z axis missalignments and the only way I think you can get those different on the same printer is if you are having too high accel/jerk settings so that those get pronounced ... so you probbly have cure lower the accel/jerk settings at the beginning of your g-code...

look in cura "speed" section, "enable acceleration control" - is this on? also "enable jerk control"? if it is, find the "smallest" numbers and use them in s3d (you have to generate a startup script for s3d manually). unfortunately s3d don't support controlling of acceleration for different segments of the print like cura

so find slowest jerk and acceleration settings in cura (as they obviously work for you) and generate startup script for s3d to set up those values. you will have to generate code yourself. use 205 for jerk: http://marlinfw.org/docs/gcode/M205.html and M201 for acceleration http://marlinfw.org/docs/gcode/M201.html

for e.g. if you find that smallest accel value in acceleration is 800mm/s2 and smallest jerk is 10mm/s you add th "startup script" in s3d something like:
Code: Select all
M201 X800 Y800 ; I don't think you need to change Z and E
M205 X10 Y10


the print from s3d will be probably bit slower (as with cura you can setup different accel values for different features so for e.g. you can print infill with higher acceleration and invisible wall sections with higher acceleration then visible wall) then from cura but you will achieve same (or better) print quality


Acceleration and Jerk controls are not enabled in Cura. But that has me thinking...maybe the acceleration and jerk settings in Marlin aren't correct.

InspGadgt
 
Posts: 16
Joined: Wed Oct 18, 2017 6:59 pm

Re: Horizontal lines in test tower

Tue Nov 14, 2017 4:20 am

Interesting...So I changed the process profile from the Anet A8 to the Prusa I3 and the lines went away. The quality was crap but the lines were gone. Still tinkering...

User avatar
dkightley
 
Posts: 1206
Joined: Tue Mar 10, 2015 3:09 pm

Re: Horizontal lines in test tower

Tue Nov 14, 2017 5:48 am

I have a vague recollection that this lining issue has been reported before on the forum.....and I remember it had something to do with the different ways that layers were "drawn". One layer would lay perimeters clockwise and infill in direction A; the next layer anti-clockwise and direction B; clockwise and direction C; and finally anti-clockwise and direction D....then round the loop. The issue was to do with the different ways the filament was laid down.

The nagging thing is I can't remember what the cure was. Something to do with either numbers of perimeters, infill type, print speed, or even extrusion multiplier. You have a profile with and without the issue....look at the differences!
Doug Kightley
Volunteer at the National Tramway Museum http://www.tramway.co.uk
Railway modeller and webmaster at http://www.talkingtgauge.net

InspGadgt
 
Posts: 16
Joined: Wed Oct 18, 2017 6:59 pm

Re: Horizontal lines in test tower

Tue Nov 14, 2017 2:48 pm

Thanks Doug that's what I'm doing...though the differences really aren't standing out as obvious as one would think. Also interesting is the prints after where I got rid of the banding are much poorer in quality than the one with the banding. The one with the banding is even smoother than the Cura print as it doesn't have the vertical waves the Cura print has. So looking through the options it looks like there is no acceleration or jerk settings in Simplify3D? Is that correct?

It is all pretty frustrating...before updating the firmware I was getting really good print quality but I had to manually level which is a pain. Now I don't have to manually level anymore but my print quality took a pretty steep dive overall.

arhi
 
Posts: 184
Joined: Thu Oct 06, 2016 4:13 pm

Re: Horizontal lines in test tower

Tue Nov 14, 2017 6:12 pm

no accel/jerk control in s3d

if you got this after firmware upgrade (not changing anything else) then it's the firmware settings... not much in the firmware really
- steps/per/mm for XYZE
- max speed for XYZE
- acceleration for XYZE
- jerk for XYZE

so do some experiments with those, drop them big time (for e.g. I find that for most machines accel of 300 and jerk of 4 are great start positions for calibration, then you start raising accel till you start to get lower quality, dial back to good quality and then start getting jerk up .. ) see where you end up.. you can easily experiment ... manually edit g-code, make something like temp tower .. make a tower and then every 20 layer add manually

Code: Select all
M201 X400 Y400
M205 X4 Y4
... then after 20 layers
M201 X500 Y500
M205 X4 Y4
... then after another 20
M201 X600 Y600
M205 X4 Y4
... another 20
M201 X700 Y700
M205 X4 Y4
....


so do a manual change of the accel/jerk settings troughout print and look for differences in quality

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