singhm29
Posts: 41
Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2015 11:52 pm

Painters tape peeling off bed during print

Wed Feb 25, 2015 1:43 am

Hi everyone,

So I am trying to start printing larger objects with PLA and an unheated bed in a basement (not the best combination I know). I use painters tape with a few sprays of rubbing alchohol to help my first layer adhere and it works great for smaller prints. Now when I print a larger job whats occurring is the first layer goes down well without any issue then about an hour into the print I start getting curling on the edges and the tape starts peeling up with the print.

Initially I thought that maybe my tape was just not on well enough so I reapplied it after cleaning the bed with rubbing alchohol and instead of vertically I did it horizontally. I made sure to really pat down the tape and make sure it was on as well as it could be.

Still it manages to come off the bed with the print and the tapes a pain to get off the print so i dont think the aim is to fix the tape adhering to the bed but many fixing some sort of print conditions? printing with the fan off for longer? printing at a higher temperature (im printing at 195 with PLA), using a huge brim/skirt?

Image

Image




Any tips or advice is welcome!

Rebekah_harper
Posts: 263
Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2015 10:25 am

Re: Painters tape peeling off bed during print

Wed Feb 25, 2015 2:05 am

Hiya,

Although I use kapton tape, I see that the part is lifting up and bringing the tape with it.

I've learnt that it's the different cooling stages the different layers are at.

I've had similar even though I've got a sort off enclosed print area. So I put my dressing gown over it (I know crude hey) but it's reduced the amount the part is lifting of the bed.

As far as I can tell, it's the management of the rate of cooling within each layer and reducing that difference in rate of cooling will help keep it on the bed.

cncpadawan
Posts: 24
Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2015 12:49 am

Re: Painters tape peeling off bed during print

Wed Feb 25, 2015 11:11 am

I have had that issue before, too. I try to get the tape as tight as possible on the bed and make sure it wraps to the underside of the bed a bit. For the middle areas, it seems that the hairspray I put down on top has helped.

I have kapton tape as well that I use, and generally put the tape over it depending on what I am doing. There is a bed cover that I found while researching issues for my printer called BuildTak (http://www.buildtak.com). I keep getting bubbles under the Kapton and have had that lift off in spots too, so I ordered one of these to try.

cncpadawan
Posts: 24
Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2015 12:49 am

Re: Painters tape peeling off bed during print

Wed Feb 25, 2015 11:14 am

Heat does make a difference too as Rebekah_harper pointed out as well. I have printed in an unfinished part of my basement (in the Midwest, it still gets cold in there!) and had some issues. I have moved the printer towards a fireplace and it has made a difference. I am going to enclose the sides of my printer eventually, and that should help.

Note I have been playing with PLA lately. ABS has its own unique problems, too, but lifting and pulling the tape is one I have had with both kinds of filament. Wondering how Nylon will react, once I can print with that.

singhm29
Posts: 41
Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2015 11:52 pm

Re: Painters tape peeling off bed during print

Wed Feb 25, 2015 11:49 am

I've learnt that it's the different cooling stages the different layers are at.
So would you think that printing at a higher temperature or not cooling immediately after the first layer would contribute to less peeling?

I try to get the tape as tight as possible on the bed and make sure it wraps to the underside of the bed a bit.
I am using a tape with medium strength from my research so i will be buying the higher strength version if I can find it and I did consider using a glass surface with hairspray but I dont know if glass would help at all if the bed is unheated. Are you using hairspray with blue painters tape?

So I put my dressing gown over it (I know crude hey) but it's reduced the amount the part is lifting of the bed. ...... moved the printer towards a fireplace and it has made a difference
In terms of moving it or enclosing it, I have considered enclosing it but with winter in full swing and a 36x36x36" printer its gonna be tough to fabricate the walls indoors. Maybe Ill use a huge cardboard box for now haha. Moving it is a bit out of the question as you have to take apart the printer to get it through the door.
here is a bed cover that I found while researching issues for my printer called BuildTak
I have seen this specifically for my printer, ar you planning to use yours with an unheated bed? And this essentially also saves you from needing to use hairspray etc correct?

cncpadawan
Posts: 24
Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2015 12:49 am

Re: Painters tape peeling off bed during print

Wed Feb 25, 2015 1:18 pm

36" cubed printer! NICE! I wish mine was bigger.. I am wanting to try to design and print some AFO's for my son, but I don't have the height to do it. I can imagine if you are printing large objects at some point you will indeed have issues with heating and cooling at some point unless it is enclosed.

I use both. I actually have kapton tape down on the bed, then (usually for PLA) I put down blue painters tape, then some hair spray on top of that. I had issues in the past with PLA coming off of the kapton even with hair spray, and the blue tape helped quite a bit with that particular problem. The stuff I have I think is 3M. There was some standard masking tape that they sent with the printer when I bought it that worked exceptionally well too. I have tried a glass bed, it didn't work so well for me, the print head would keep hitting the clips (dual extruder, usually the extruder not doing anything would get in the way).

My bed is heated, but I don't heat with PLA. The BuildTak will be used for both. From what their site says, it is supposed to alleviate the need for hair spray and all of that, but also be easier to remove printed objects when the time comes for it. That is one problem I have with the way I do things now... the stuff I print is pretty well affixed to the print bed to the point I have to get a screwdriver and tap it with a hammer around the base to break it loose. On the plus side.. I don't have warping issues! The big thing for me though is the bubbles.. I can't get the kapton down without getting bubbles in it. My bed has several mounting points with screws through the top. They are recessed, but when you put the tape over them it will trap air. After a print or two, it seems the air decides to 'move' because of the pressure of the printing process against the bed, so I get air bubbles where I don't want them. Generally I pop them with a pin and flatten it out, but it isn't the best way to do it I don't think. I also end up with divots above the screws then, too.

Rebekah_harper
Posts: 263
Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2015 10:25 am

Re: Painters tape peeling off bed during print

Wed Feb 25, 2015 6:22 pm

I wouldn't use cooling. Mine I've actually moved away from the feeder.

I wouldn't increase the heat, that could cause other issues.

I can appreciate the issue with the size and trying to enclose it. But what you want to be able to do is reduce that rate of cooling.

The buildtak is spot on. I just had a problem getting my part off it.

There is a trick on YouTube which made a difference with getting the kapton tape down. :-)

cncpadawan
Posts: 24
Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2015 12:49 am

Re: Painters tape peeling off bed during print

Wed Feb 25, 2015 8:30 pm

LOL I saw a trick on YouTube too... it worked, actually, until I printed with a heated bed for the first time. Or, maybe I didn't rub the tape down hard enough. Oh well, the BuildTak will be here tomorrow I hope.

User avatar
BaronWilliams
Posts: 159
Joined: Tue Jul 15, 2014 8:30 pm

Re: Painters tape peeling off bed during print

Wed Feb 25, 2015 11:41 pm

I print on PET tape. It's much better than BuildTak, blue painter's tape or kapton tape, if you have a heated build plate. It's far more durable than all three. I've printed hundreds of things on a single piece of PET tape! It still doesn't need replacing yet. ABS sticks well to PET tape at 105 C. PLA sticks well at 60 C. Both pop off on their own at room temperature. So there's no struggling with the prints to get them off the plate. They just pop right off when it cools down.

I print PLA on PET tape with a build plate temperature of 60 C. It normally sticks really well to the PET surface at 60 C, and then pops off when it cools down because it doesn't stick at room temperature. This is great, MOST OF THE TIME.

I have a FlashForge Dreamer, which prints PLA very well, and corner lifting is rarely a problem with my setup. But for those occasional times when corner lifting is an issue, the PLA print won't pull off the PET tape like it will with blue painter's tape, but nevertheless, corner lifting is not desirable, so that's when I opt for using Elmer's Purple Glue Stick.

If you haven't tried it already, a thin layer of Elmer's Purple Glue Stick on a PET tape covered build platform will prevent corner lifting almost completely. You apply a very thin layer. Heat up your build plate to 60 C for PLA, and then start printing.

When the print is done, and I don't need the glue surface, the glue easily wipes off with a damp cloth because it's water soluble. Great stuff. I highly recommend it. Hair spray works too, but I don't like using it. It's hard to control where it goes and it smells BAD.

I have not tried it on a room temperature build plate. I always print PLA on a build plate set to 60 C. I'm not sure how well Elmer's Purple Glue Stick works at room temperature with PLA.

I love using PET tape. It produces glass-like shiny surfaces without the danger of using glass (which can shatter and cut you). I hate blue painter's tape with a passion! Things stick too well to it, and prints often contain little pieces of the tape, and the tape needs replacing all too often. I have NEVER replaced my PET tape. It lasts and lasts. But you need a heated build plate for it. Kapton kept breaking, and didn't work well with PLA, so I didn't use that for long. BuildTak is very expensive compared to PET tape and it wears out faster than PET tape, doesn't produce the shiny surface PET tape produces, and sometimes things are stuck so well to it you can't get them off easily. But there are things that won't stick to PET tape, such as HIPS (unless I apply Elmer's Purple Glue Stick) and some very odd varieties of ABS I've used (again the glue stick fixes that). So it's not the perfect solution for everything. But its very cost effective. It outlasts Kapton, blue painter's tape, and BuildTak by a long shot. So you save a ton of time and money using it.

CT4
Posts: 51
Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2014 3:13 am
Location: Sydney Australia

Re: Painters tape peeling off bed during print

Thu Feb 26, 2015 8:21 pm

Elmer's Purple Glue Stick works really well with PLA on a cold bed plate. The one thing that made a huge difference to me was to get a Geralite buildplare. wash the plate before each print leave it just damp apply a light coat of Elmer's Purple Glue Stick and you are good to go. I print a lot of moulds so the bottom has to be flat. The only time I have a problem nowadays is when i am rushing and do not prep the plate properly.

Return to “General Discussion and Tips”