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BaronWilliams
Posts: 159
Joined: Tue Jul 15, 2014 8:30 pm

Re: Painters tape peeling off bed during print

Thu Feb 26, 2015 9:08 pm

CT4 wrote:Elmer's Purple Glue Stick works really well with PLA on a cold bed plate.
That's good to know.

I was originally very reluctant to try Elmer's Purple Glue Stick. The idea of coating the build plate with kids glue didn't sit well with me. One time at work I was printing on a MakerBot Replicator 2X, and the printed objects were curling on the edges and I absolutely needed the prints completed ASAP and without any edge curl. I decided to give Elmer's Purple Glue Stick a try out of pure desperation. I was surprised at how well it worked, and how easy it was to use and cleanup. I was like WHY DIDN'T I TRY THIS BEFORE! It's not at all messy or sticky like I had imagined. When applied thinly, the glue drys quickly and forms a nice smooth surface, that's not tacky whatsoever.

I like that the Elmer's Purple Glue Stick is non-toxic, and washes off easily with water, and doesn't have a strong smell.

Sometimes I just put a very small amount and spread it with a damp cloth to get a nice super thin even coat to aid adhesion a little bit.

Someone needs to make a glue stick specifically designed for 3D printers. One with a large applicator that puts the glue on in a super thin coat. Maybe make some modifications to the formula so it's easy to spread thinly and dries super fast.

Joao
Posts: 19
Joined: Sun Dec 28, 2014 1:38 pm

Re: Painters tape peeling off bed during print

Fri Feb 27, 2015 2:59 am

I had the same problem, lifting blue tape while part was printing.

Switched to Buildtak a few weeks ago and I definitely recommend it. No more worries at all. I still warm up the bed though, even for PLA.

The only problem I have is too much adhesion after cooling, even after trying: not using heat, moving starting Z a bit higher, etc.
A problem that I can live with, better than a failed print.

singhm29
Posts: 41
Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2015 11:52 pm

Re: Painters tape peeling off bed during print

Fri Feb 27, 2015 12:30 pm

36" cubed printer! NICE!
As I was getting a rough estimate for how much building an enclosure would cost me I realized I was a bit overzealous about this its actualy 2' cubed not 3'!

Switched to Buildtak a few weeks ago and I definitely recommend it.
In terms of Buildtak the one thing I worry about is scratching the surface and ruining it/how long it will last, would love to hear peoples experience of avoiding cutting it when prying it off with a potters knife or whatever they use. Also how long it lasts
I wouldn't use cooling. Mine I've actually moved away from the feeder.

I wouldn't increase the heat, that could cause other issues.

I can appreciate the issue with the size and trying to enclose it. But what you want to be able to do is reduce that rate of cooling.
So you dont do any cooling when you print PLA? I am only printing at 195 for PLA and im seeing people print close to 225 so I thought I would have quite a bit of room to play with so this might be something worth tweaking. Could you expand on what you mean by reducing the rate of cooling? Maybe run my fan at a lower speed for the first few layers and gradually ramp it up per layer?
I love using PET tape.
Hearing someone confess love for tape makes me want to try it but at $600 for a heated bed for this beast Im not in a hurry to upgrade which sadly leaves me out of the PET club :(
Elmer's Purple Glue Stick works really well with PLA on a cold bed plate.
I did stand at staples for a bit trying to figure out which glue to use but ended up getting hairspray instead. Good to hear it works on a cold plate will look into that. Still wonder if that would solve my problem because im not having an issue between the bond between the tape and the print its more of avoiding the curling effect all together since the force of the curling is forcing the tape up!



Right now im debating between two options more than the others at the moment. Building an enclosure or buying a BuildTak

Building an enclosure
-will cost me about $100-120 to make out of 5/8 white Melamine to build the enclosure
-will likely cost another $60 for heating it and venting it
-not exactly sure how I could tie this in to the firmware or electrical connections of the printer to self regulate or if I would need a seperate PID controller todo this
-gives me the potential of printing in ABS down the line without the smell

BuildTak
-will cost me about 70-80

Let me know what you guys think!

Joao
Posts: 19
Joined: Sun Dec 28, 2014 1:38 pm

Re: Painters tape peeling off bed during print

Sat Feb 28, 2015 12:43 am

I use a very sharp and strong knife removing the parts from BuildTak, scratching a lot its surface, and it is really strong!
I was expecting it to last a few tens of prints with this uncareless but necessary handling, and it holds pretty well. It will last much longer than i imagined.
Prints still adhere strong regardless of how much scrapped/scratched it got.

$70 for BuildTalk seems too much. I bought a few on eBay from a polish shop for around $30 (£20)
http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.vi ... 1552110980

singhm29
Posts: 41
Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2015 11:52 pm

Re: Painters tape peeling off bed during print

Mon Mar 02, 2015 10:24 pm

Hmm thats promising I thought one bad slip and a bad removal could ruin the buildtak. Good to know it can take some abuse!
The issue is my bed is 24"x24" so I would need one full peice of BuildTak thats why the price is a bit higher.

However I did try my other route out! Spent the weekend building an enclosure for my printer and just finished setting up the heating elements to see how long it takes to achieve different temperatures.
Now to figure out what temperatures are ideal for setting the chamber at... 35 celsius for PLA? 45 for ABS?
Image

billyd
Posts: 189
Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2015 12:13 pm

Re: Painters tape peeling off bed during print

Tue Mar 03, 2015 11:23 am

I know this may not be a realistic option for the OP but frankly if there is any way you can go with a glass heated build plate, do it and don't look back.

For PLA you set the temp to 60 degrees C on the plate, and use Garnier Fructis #5 extreme hold hairspray on the glass (couple of light spray coats). You will never have another issue with prints holding again and it's SO MUCH easier that dealing with tape.

I threw all my tape away.

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BaronWilliams
Posts: 159
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Re: Painters tape peeling off bed during print

Tue Mar 03, 2015 2:01 pm

billyd wrote:I know this may not be a realistic option for the OP but frankly if there is any way you can go with a glass heated build plate, do it and don't look back.

For PLA you set the temp to 60 degrees C on the plate, and use Garnier Fructis #5 extreme hold hairspray on the glass (couple of light spray coats). You will never have another issue with prints holding again and it's SO MUCH easier that dealing with tape.

I threw all my tape away.
One of the guys at work used to love printing on glass until it broke one day (busted while removing a print).

I will completely disagree with using glass for safety reasons. Once you've had a crack on your glass and cut your fingers on the crack, you'll see what I mean. Rather, I use PET tape affixed to a hard flat build plate. A single sheet has lasted throughout hundreds of prints and still works great. I print PLA on PET tape at 60 C and get shiny results just as if I was printing on glass without adding any glue or hairspray. Corner lifting isn't usually a problem with PLA on a 60 C build plate, and if it was, a tiny bit of Elmer's Purple Glue Stick addresses it. And when the surface cools down, the print pops right off the PET surface (unless you used glue). I can't imaging dealing with glass ever again. When you have a print that's stuck to the glass, it is very dangerous to attempt to remove it. There are tricks that can help, but glass is prone to cracking producing very sharp cutting edges. It's just not a safe material to print on.

Advantages of printing PLA on PET at 60 C vs Glass at 60 C:

* PET will NOT cut you if it breaks.
* PLA sticks to PET without glue or hairspray at 60 C.
* PLA pops off PET when the build plate cools down. No fighting with stuck prints EVER. It just pops right off on it's own.
* PLA is MORE DURABLE than glass and can easily withstand a print head ramming straight down into it. Glass will CRACK or CHIP of a print head rams straight down into it!
Last edited by BaronWilliams on Tue Mar 03, 2015 2:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

billyd
Posts: 189
Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2015 12:13 pm

Re: Painters tape peeling off bed during print

Tue Mar 03, 2015 2:25 pm

BaronWilliams wrote:
billyd wrote:I know this may not be a realistic option for the OP but frankly if there is any way you can go with a glass heated build plate, do it and don't look back.

For PLA you set the temp to 60 degrees C on the plate, and use Garnier Fructis #5 extreme hold hairspray on the glass (couple of light spray coats). You will never have another issue with prints holding again and it's SO MUCH easier that dealing with tape.

I threw all my tape away.
One of the guys at work used to love printing on glass until it broke one day.

I will completely disagree with using glass. Once you've had a crack on your glass and cut your fingers on the crack, you'll see what I mean. Rather, I use PET tape affixed to a hard flat build plate. I print PLA on PET tape at 60 C and get shiny results just as if I was printing on Glass without adding any glue or hairspray. Corner lifting isn't usually a problem with PLA on a 60 C build plate, and if it was, a tiny bit of Elmer's Purple Glue Stick addresses it. And when the surface cools down, the print pops right off the PET surface. I can't imaging dealing with glass ever again. When you have a print that's stuck to the glass, it is very dangerous to attempt to remove it. There are tricks that can help, but glass is prone to cracking producing very sharp cutting edges. It's just not a safe material to print on.

Advantages of printing PLA on PET at 60 C vs Glass at 60 C:

* PET will NOT cut you if it breaks.
* PLA sticks to PET without glue or hairspray at 60 C.
* PLA pops off PET when the build plate cools down. No fighting with stuck prints EVER. It just pops right off on it's own.
* PLA is MORE DURABLE than glass and can easily withstand a print head ramming straight down into it. Glass will CRACK or CHIP of a print head rams straight down into it!

Interesting. I have only been printing for 2 years so it hasn't happened to me yet. Typically if I let the plate cool the part is loose before I even touch it. I found when a print sticks to glass after cooling it is either due to using too much hairspray (more than 3 layers starts to become a problem 1 or 2 layers is perfect) or the first layer is extruded too close to the surface (bad level or home setting) of the glass. Both of these issues are easily avoided.

Using PET or any form of tape to me is a difficult complication. I wash off my build plate after every third print in hot water and reapply two layers of hairspray. Takes about 1 minute. Applying tape perfectly smoothly can be quite difficult. Although I am sure you can get very good at it with practice.

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BaronWilliams
Posts: 159
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Re: Painters tape peeling off bed during print

Tue Mar 03, 2015 2:31 pm

I never need to wash the PET build surface. Glass with hairspray needs washing. Not PET with nothing added to it. I never use glue unless the object has unusually strong curling forces, which is very rare of PLA printed on a 60 C build plate. If I use glue it's a tiny bit of Elmer's Purple Glue Stick, and that wipes off easily with a damp cloth.

PET tape is thick and easy to apply flat without bubbles. Try it. You will LOVE IT. It's the best build surface I have used so far.

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DarthRevan
Posts: 469
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Re: Painters tape peeling off bed during print

Thu Mar 05, 2015 2:25 pm

An alternative my friend used before getting an enclosed build area was a space heater. Warm room = Optimal!

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