Uboofer
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2016 10:45 am

Warping in S3D but not Cura

Mon Apr 18, 2016 8:59 pm

Just picked up a new Ultimaker 2 a couple of weeks ago and been very happy with it. Cura is easy to use and I have been successful with all my print jobs. After watching a bunch of you tube videos and reading articles I decided to purchase Simplify 3D.

So far I have printed a few things with S3D and except for one job that I used a raft on because it was small, everything else has had at least one edge with some warping on it. Even one job today that I used a brim and the warping was on the part inside the brim (this was Ultimaker PLA with 210/60). For the most part I am printing Colorfabb PLA/PHA with a nozzle temp of 200 and bed temp of 60. Height is only .15 and a speed of 50mm except for the first layer which is default for PLA. Fans don't start until after the first level and nothing but the heatbed glass for adhesive.

The parts are more basically for function so the warping doesn't hurt the part but it just annoying than anything.

The thing I can't figure out is if I print the same part in Cura, I don't have the warping issue. Is there any settings I should change that will stop this in S3D? I admit I am new to this and issues like this are all part of the learning curve. Any advise is helpful. Thanks.

CompoundCarl
Posts: 2005
Joined: Wed Aug 05, 2015 7:23 am

Re: Warping in S3D but not Cura

Tue Apr 19, 2016 6:17 am

This usually just means that you still have slightly different placement and settings for the first layer. If the first layers were printed identically, then usually, you would see the same amount of warping on both of them. So you should focus on those settings.

How thick is the first layer in your other software? What temperature is it at? Try to match those settings in S3D.

You may also want to try lower the Z-axis global gcode offset (on the G-Code tab), as that will move the nozzle closer to the bed and help with adhesion (for example, enter -0.05mm to move it 0.05mm closer). Using a brim is another great option to help with this.

There's more explanation about some of this stuff here: https://www.simplify3d.com/support/prin ... to-the-bed

Uboofer
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2016 10:45 am

Re: Warping in S3D but not Cura

Tue Apr 19, 2016 9:21 pm

For first layer in Cura these are the settings that are on the first layer

initial layer thickness mm - 0.3
initial layer line width (%) - 100
cut off object bottom (mm) - 0.0
dual extrusion overlap (0.15) This is a single extruder so it doesn't apply on this printer
bottom layer speed is 20
Looking at S3Ds first layer settings

First layer height - 130% If I did the math right this is just shy of .2 so I guess I will have to bump this up to 200% since my primary layer height is .15mm
First layer width 100%
First layer speed 30%

I will try to adjust my settings in S3D and see if the next print looks better before I mess with the z-axis settings.

One other question, In Cura I can specify a print speed. I currently have it set for 50mm/s. In S3D the only field that I can that might manage the speed it on the "other" tab under default printing speed. Is this the area that I would change the printing speed once the base layer is down or is it somewhere else? S3D has this setting at 41.7mm/s

CompoundCarl
Posts: 2005
Joined: Wed Aug 05, 2015 7:23 am

Re: Warping in S3D but not Cura

Wed Apr 20, 2016 8:21 am

The "default printing speed" is the speed that your infill is printed at. You can then use the % modifiers for things like outlines, supports, top/bottom layers, first layer, etc.

Uboofer
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2016 10:45 am

Re: Warping in S3D but not Cura

Wed Apr 20, 2016 7:49 pm

So I made changes in S3D to replicate the settings in Cura and I still got warping. I suspect that my issue is actually the cooling settings as the fan by default is to have the fan turn on after the first layer.

After doing some reading I changed the fan setting so that the fan doesn't turn on until layer 6 and it only turns on at 60%. At layer 10 it increases to 80% and stays there on till the print is done.

Not sure why the default setting is to turn on the fans at layer 2 but hopefully this fixes my issue. I will reply after I test the new settings.

Uboofer
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2016 10:45 am

Re: Warping in S3D but not Cura

Tue Apr 26, 2016 9:21 pm

So I did a couple of prints today and still got warping on the edge of the parts. The parts are functional so it doesn't hurt it but its more of a eye sore on these prints. I have changed everything that I can see that is different between Cura and S3D but still getting warping. I don't get it.

Cooling is set for the first 5 layers to not have any cooling just to make sure that adhesion occurs but that doesn't make a difference. Cura didn't need anything I have not tried glue or tape on the bed while printing with S3D. I have the nozzle at 210 and the bed at 60 in both programs so that shouldn't be it. Anyone else have any other suggestions? I'll keep at it since I do like this program and its more than likely just something simple.

PinballGeorgio
Posts: 94
Joined: Sat Apr 11, 2015 10:58 am

Re: Warping in S3D but not Cura

Wed Apr 27, 2016 3:31 am

I have experienced multiple times that with only the glassbed after a dozens of prints, the plastic isn't sticking good anymore.
Try using the glue stift which comes standard with the ultimaker or for better results use kapton tape on the glass.
When I print small parts I use some acetone to make the small parts stick better.
Only problem is sometimes, that the part is too good sticking to the bed. But it's better than warping issues.

CompoundCarl
Posts: 2005
Joined: Wed Aug 05, 2015 7:23 am

Re: Warping in S3D but not Cura

Wed Apr 27, 2016 5:55 am

Well somethings probably still different between the programs. It might be worth comparing the gcode files from each program to take a closer look. You can check things like the F-values to see what speed the first layer prints at. You can check the Z-values to verify what height the printer is going to. If you print a really simple cube or something like that, it should also be pretty easy to check the extrusion amounts/widths to make sure those match. And obviously cooling and bed/extruder temperatures are easy to see too.

That's what I would do if you really want to figure out what's different. If the gcode is the same, then the printer should behave the same way.

Also - I've definitely made the mistake before of claiming something worked previously, but then when I made this one change it stopped working. However, sometimes there are other factors involved. For example, maybe the bed is just dirty or something like that. So make sure you occasionally re-print a file from your other software to make sure it STILL works. That just helps rule out other factors and may save you some headaches ;)

danielhenley
Posts: 36
Joined: Fri Sep 11, 2015 1:27 pm

Re: Warping in S3D but not Cura

Fri Apr 29, 2016 5:28 pm

Uboofer wrote:For first layer in Cura these are the settings that are on the first layer

initial layer thickness mm - 0.3
initial layer line width (%) - 100
cut off object bottom (mm) - 0.0
dual extrusion overlap (0.15) This is a single extruder so it doesn't apply on this printer
bottom layer speed is 20
Looking at S3Ds first layer settings

First layer height - 130% If I did the math right this is just shy of .2 so I guess I will have to bump this up to 200% since my primary layer height is .15mm
First layer width 100%
First layer speed 30%

I will try to adjust my settings in S3D and see if the next print looks better before I mess with the z-axis settings.

One other question, In Cura I can specify a print speed. I currently have it set for 50mm/s. In S3D the only field that I can that might manage the speed it on the "other" tab under default printing speed. Is this the area that I would change the printing speed once the base layer is down or is it somewhere else? S3D has this setting at 41.7mm/s
First layer height is your problem. The point of that setting is to move the nozzle closer than usual to the bed to create a squashed first layer for better sticking. This is especially important when printing coarse layers. At 130% of 0.3mm your nozzle is printing 0.4mm off the surface--so if you're nozzle is 0.4mm you won't be pressing the plastic onto the build plate at all.

I'd suggest a 90% first layer height.

The only time you would want to go above 100% for first layer height is if you are printing really fine layer thickness (0.05mm) and you want to make sure the nozzle doesn't get too close to the build plate.

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pixel3design
Posts: 22
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Location: Ravenna, Italy
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Re: Warping in S3D but not Cura

Fri Mar 03, 2017 10:20 am

Wrong. The percentage is relative to Layer Height, not to Nozzle Size.
He didn't express the nozzle size (at least not in this thread).

Squashing the first layer is not a good thing (not true in Nylon). You get a razor sharp corner and possibly a terrible slope ramp on the bottom layers, with the need of post processing.

I stoped to squash the first layer down a long ago and no regreats at all. My parts always sticks to the bed just using Aquanet for PLA and nGen (and 50°C for the bed) and PVA glue for ABS (80°C bed).

PLA could stick with no carriers on the bed. Most of the failures cames from your hands. Phisiologic grease on your hand, if you touched the build plate, is enough to let the part to not stick on the surface.
Io non credo in un Dio personale, non l'ho mai negato e anzi l'ho espresso chiaramente. Se c'è qualcosa in me che può essere definito religioso, quella è la sconfinata ammirazione per la struttura del mondo così come la scienza può rivelarcela.

E.Albert

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