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Advanced FFF Profile Editing - Nozzle Sizes

Posted: Sat Aug 27, 2016 11:22 pm
by blaknite7
I've been getting into advanced editing of the xml profiles to add some additional functionality, however this problem as me stumped...

I never really use the "auto-configure for print quality" so I wanted to turn it into a feature that I could use. I have several different nozzles sizes that I can print with, So I am trying to turn that into an easy way to select a nozzle size and preconfigure some of the settings. So far I have been successfully able to edit the name (in the pull down list) and have it populate the Nozzle diameter and extrusion width for the different sizes....

I'm running into an issue because I also want to preconfigure the ooze control and temperatures. The issue with adding those commands to the auto-configure quality XML block is that it will overwrite those values for all circumstances, regardless of the material choosen. Is there a way to have unique values for each material AND the auto-configure quality (as it it were another variable)?

basically I am looking for logic that follows similar to this:

1. select material "A".
2. select nozzle size "from quality auto-configure list"
3. temperature and ooze control settings are prepopulated.

However, currently this flow does not produce unique values for the temperature and ooze control settings. For example if material "B" is chosen and the same flow is followed, it currently gives temperatures and ooze control settings that are the same as material "A" and not unique...

I have tried transferring the <autoconfigurequality> to a heading thats under the <autoconfigurematerial> but that didnt seem to work... anyone have an idea how to do this?

Re: Advanced FFF Profile Editing - Nozzle Sizes

Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2016 10:22 am
by dorsai3d
I posted an example of this somewhere else, too -this is the most complicated Simplify3D profile I've found, and it does what you're talking about, where it has nested autoconfigures. One thing I've seen when editing profiles is that you have to have everything consistent. So if you have quality autoconfigures under materials, you have to have quality autoconfigures under all materials and nowhere else. And the settings that you save in autoconfigures has to be the same across all autoconfigures.

Re: Advanced FFF Profile Editing - Nozzle Sizes

Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2016 1:32 am
by KC_703
Its been a while since I worked with FFFs, but Dorsai3D is right on. If you define a parameter, it needs to be defined in all your custom Material or Quality profiles. If that parameter isn't defined, it will inherit the setting from the previous profile. At least, that's what I recall...

The other thing to keep in mind is (and I apologize if you've realized this :)) the Extruder, Temperature and Cooling tabs are governed by the "Material" profile. All the parameters in the other tabs are governed by the "Quality" profiles. In some cases, adding "global" to a tag from the "Material" profile allows it to be used in the "Quality" profile. For instance <globalExtrusionMultiplier>.

Associated Material and Quality profiles combined will get you the full control you want over nozzle, temperatures and ooze shield. I use Layer Height as a common "indexer" to associate my "Material" and "Quality". As an example, I have a "Material" profile called "ABS_LH2" then I have "Quality" profiles called "ABS_LH2_5400", "ABS_LH2_4200" to quickly select a preset default print speed... which I find affects the exterior finish of the object (prototyping vs final). To control the printing of the OozeShield, I'd probably create additional profiles called "ABS_LH2_5400_OozeNO" and "ABS_LH2_5400_OozeYES" utilizing the <useOozeShield> parameter.

So maybe you can come up with a system for the parameters that are most useful for you. Something like:
MATERIAL profiles "ABS_Noz5_TempHI", "ABS_Noz5_TempLOW"
QUALITY profiles: "ABS_Noz5_OozeNO", "ABS_Noz5_OozeYES"

The attached is a FFF for my TAZ 5... again, I use Layer Height as the common indexer to tie custom Material and Quality profiles. The "N5D" stands for Nozzle .5 and Dual extruder. FWIW, I have another Printer Profile named "N3D" when I use .3mm nozzles.

Sorry for the long post, hope it helps...

Re: Advanced FFF Profile Editing - Nozzle Sizes

Posted: Sat Sep 03, 2016 6:44 pm
by blaknite7
Thanks for sharing the profile guys, I took all your comments at put a profile together based off of the "nested quality options". Everything seems to work as intended except for one thing... whenever an auto-configure extruder command is given in the process window it will use some default temperature value for the extruders under that quality setting. It seems to me that whenever the extruder is "toggled" off or on this default value appears, no clue as to why....? :?:

Would someone mind putting a second set of eyes on it? I've attached the profile and you can follow the steps below to see what I am talking about:

1. Upload the FFF and make a new process.
2. (DO NOT TOUCH THE AUTO CONFIGURE EXTRUDERS YET!!!) the profile should come in with PLA, .4 Nozzle, and Both Extruders as the auto-configure sections.
3. By changing only the material and print quality auto-config options and looking at the parameters you can see that the temperatures, extrusion parameters and speeds all vary as intend with each selection (Note I picked higher temperatures in this example to illustrate the issue I'm having).
4. Now if you select a specific extruder from the auto-configure extruder, say "Left Only" the temperature will default back to 190C for that extruder... so for example:

PLA, .4 Nozzle, and "Both Extruders" should be a temperature of 240°C, if you select "left extrduer" the temperature will default back to 190°C for the left extrduer with these same settings instead of 240°C...

5. At this point if you revert back to "both extruders" the default value for temperature remains 190!!! the most interesting thing is that the profile does not show the "(updated)" flag indicating its been changed, and if you were to export the FFF without updating it, the file would match what you've uploaded...

You can verify the profile going in does not have any temperatures marked as 190, so this is obviously some value coming from somewhere inside S3D.

Anyone have any ideas?!?

Re: Advanced FFF Profile Editing - Nozzle Sizes

Posted: Sat Sep 03, 2016 9:22 pm
by KC_703
I didn't load your FFF (it wouldn't work for my machine's firmware anyway), but looked at it through an editor.

You've nested your "autoconfigureQuality" sub-profiles under the "autoconfigureMaterial" sub-profile... whicn may not work properly. If you look at the original FFF for your printer, all the Material sub-profiles are grouped together. Likewise for the Quality sub-profiles...

All the <extruder>, <temperatureController>, <fanSpeed> parameters go into the "Material" sub profile.s Everything else (all the other tabs) go into the "Quality" sub profiles.

So for what you want to achieve, it would probably be more of a structure like:

Regarding the temperatures resetting when picking only Left or Right extruders, I've had similar issues. I think S3D picks temperature settings after choosing the extruder. So my theory is that it boils down to the order in which you select things. Try choosing the Extruder (Left, Right or Both), then choose your Material sub-profile (which contains the extruder temp settings).

Re: Advanced FFF Profile Editing - Nozzle Sizes

Posted: Sat Sep 03, 2016 10:20 pm
by blaknite7
I've seen others do what you are talking about, by making the material one of the variables that contain the different nozzle sizes. if all else fails i can revert back to this... the hope was to avoid this since it's not as eloquent.

the nested quality under the autoconfig material definitely works. the ZYYX file listed earlier in the form is another example of a profile in which it works too. That profile only has one extruder, so there was nothing in the example profile to indicate the autoconfig extruder would be an issue.

everything else in the profile i made works perfectly. all of the other specific settings (g-code offsets, extruder settings, speeds) it all works and is unaffected by the nozzle switch. its just the temperature for some reason... no idea why.

if all else fails i may send it to S3D to see if they have any comments on whats happening. its defaulting to a temperature that doesn't exist anywhere else in the profile, so there is obviously something fishy going on behind the scenes.