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Bad first layer on support material

Posted: Sun Jul 09, 2017 10:58 am
by Hopeful
I have a Mass Portal Grand Pharaoh XD 40 and have always struggled with poor quality in the first layer above any support structure, where the first layer becomes stringy and does not lay flat. In some of the larger models, quality of this layer has been desperately bad. With the first layer being stringy and uneven, it can be difficult to separate off the support layer without damaging the model.

To analyse I have drawn a simple flat test model and photographed with several setting changes to the “Support” tab.

There must be something fundamental in the settings creating this as the print starts on the bed fine and is otherwise good.

Please see attached factory file as well as a PDF I have put together with photos and screen prints of the support tab settings.
Photos etc.
(865.34 KiB) Downloaded 254 times
Also attached is the factory file:
first layer on support test_1.factory
Factory File - Test 1
(3.26 KiB) Downloaded 128 times
Previously when Mass Portal recommended I used rafts, I found the raft impossible to separate off the model, suffering the same stringy interface. I ended up buying a belt sander to make the models vaguely usable. I have since given up using rafts and now print directly on the BuildTak, but wonder if this is part of the same problem?

Help would be appreciated.

Many thanks.

Re: Bad first layer on support material

Posted: Sun Jul 09, 2017 6:30 pm
by brian442
Does the XD40 have 2 extruders? If so, you can probably get much better results using a dissolvable support material.

There's also a lot of other suggestions for this issue here in case you haven't seen it: ... e-supports

Re: Bad first layer on support material

Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 4:44 pm
by Hopeful
yes, I do have 2 extruders and have had this solution in the back of my mind, but haven’t yet got to grips with using the second extruder.

Also yes, I have read the advice, but unless I have missed something, cannot find anything to solve this. I am using 1 separation layer with the only other choice being 0, where the advice is the model can become difficult to remove from the support structure (hence using the second extruder with a dissolvable material for this setting)...

I have seen other printers (using other software) produce perfect models that separate perfectly from a support layer of the same material, so I am assuming it is something I am doing that is wrong, or does this always happen with Simplify 3D, or is it the Mass Portal printer?

Re: Bad first layer on support material

Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 3:07 pm
by jfkansas
Make sure your first layer after supports (bridge) is running at least a 30 degrees different angle than the supports. Run supports at like 30 and 70 degrees. 20 percent and then about 70% dense. Also bridge calcs come into play here. Start with 100 extrusion on bridging and 120% speed.

Re: Bad first layer on support material

Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 3:59 pm
by Hopeful
These setting suggestions look very interesting, but my apologies for being thick... where do I find all these settings?