Separate support processes for dual extruder

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jgabber
 
Posts: 3
Joined: Mon Feb 12, 2018 1:26 pm

Separate support processes for dual extruder

Mon Feb 12, 2018 1:56 pm

Hello All!

I have searched the forums and found a few similar threads, but nothing that seems to solve the question I have.

I am looking to use my Flashforge dual extruder to print this item and want to use one head to print the supports (ABS) and the second to print the object (TPU (Flex)) The TPU requires a different speed than the ABS, I can find a way to control all of the other differences (Temp and such) per head, but I cannot figure out how to separate the two heads as far as speed goes. It seems there is one speed and it is propagated between the two heads.

I can not find a way to make the supports their own object/Process either or I would attack it that way.

Any ideas or help on what I am missing is greatly appreciated!

Cheers!
Jason
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24c
 
Posts: 21
Joined: Thu Jan 04, 2018 2:37 pm

Re: Separate support processes for dual extruder

Tue Feb 13, 2018 12:13 pm

I'm new to this, but surely the heads are related to a tool change, so can't you make a new condition when the new tool is selected either as a tool change script or a post process, that slows the print speed down globally? Simplistically, I am assuming you can do this with a GCode routine with your printer, but I can't with mine.

The other thing is have you used the Dual Extrusion Wizard? ... because this will assign processes and a head to the TPU & ABS, especially if the parts are modelled separately. Each one of those processes will have a speed setting etc that you can change for these materials, so I'm a little confused re your post as well. :)

jgabber
 
Posts: 3
Joined: Mon Feb 12, 2018 1:26 pm

Re: Separate support processes for dual extruder

Tue Feb 13, 2018 2:19 pm

24c wrote:I'm new to this, but surely the heads are related to a tool change, so can't you make a new condition when the new tool is selected either as a tool change script or a post process, that slows the print speed down globally? Simplistically, I am assuming you can do this with a GCode routine with your printer, but I can't with mine.


If I wanted to figure out how to write a tool change script that made a global speed change I guess that might somehow work, but I don't write G Code, that's why I purchased Simplify3D....

24c wrote:The other thing is have you used the Dual Extrusion Wizard? ... because this will assign processes and a head to the TPU & ABS, especially if the parts are modelled separately. Each one of those processes will have a speed setting etc that you can change for these materials, so I'm a little confused re your post as well. :)


The dual extrusion wizard requires 2 parts/models/pieces to function in case you haven't used it before. This is a single piece with supports as you can see from the picture. as I stated in the original post I can not find a way to declare the supports as a separate part in order to make a process dedicated to that. Sorry if something was confusing, I thought I made the problem pretty clear.

horst.w
 
Posts: 486
Joined: Fri Oct 17, 2014 4:00 pm

Re: Separate support processes for dual extruder

Tue Feb 13, 2018 6:37 pm

So as Member 24c wrote, it is easy to realize;

prepare your print as usual;

add a second process (Add in the main window)

choice it, the 2nd settings window opens and go to Support

activate the support and do the settings ( speeds , temps ...)

choice there the 2nd extruder for support material

close the window, click to Prepare Print > all processes
ignore the warning message ...

in the preview choice the option " ... Coloring > Active Extruder

the Preview will show what will be printed with extruder 1 or 2

Regards
horst.w
GER

Support.png

jgabber
 
Posts: 3
Joined: Mon Feb 12, 2018 1:26 pm

Re: Separate support processes for dual extruder

Wed Feb 14, 2018 10:14 am

horst.w wrote:So as Member 24c wrote, it is easy to realize;

prepare your print as usual;

add a second process (Add in the main window)

choice it, the 2nd settings window opens and go to Support

activate the support and do the settings ( speeds , temps ...)

choice there the 2nd extruder for support material

close the window, click to Prepare Print > all processes
ignore the warning message ...

in the preview choice the option " ... Coloring > Active Extruder

the Preview will show what will be printed with extruder 1 or 2

Regards
horst.w
GER

Support.png



Thanks for the clarification Horst, this is not a clear process. I did try this actually but stopped after the warning as I didnt want it to try and double print as the warning stated. It's not a common process for me to ignore a warning to get something to work, clearly a process bug if this is the proper way to do this.

I will give this a go!

Cheers,
Jason

24c
 
Posts: 21
Joined: Thu Jan 04, 2018 2:37 pm

Re: Separate support processes for dual extruder

Wed Feb 14, 2018 5:53 pm

gjabber wrote:If I wanted to figure out how to write a tool change script that made a global speed change I guess that might somehow work, but I don't write G Code, that's why I purchased Simplify3D....

I bought Simplify3D for my RepRap dual extrusion printer, and I had to learn how to write GCode to get Simplify3D to work with it, but I had no idea this was an emotive block for you. ;) Anyway, your problem was simpler than I even thought, as Horst explained all too well, and I took some learning from his post, which I will apply, so I am grateful for your question. :)

As having a dual extrusion printer for a few years now, I often used to model support as a separate model in CAD, and grow it out as a tree like structure, as my OEM tools re support were poor, so that's why I suggested the Dual Extrusion Wizard , which I have used. I also got error messages using two extruders outside of this, one per process and found it confusing, until I looked at the Toolhead graphics, and got a visual confirmation/picture of what I required, but hey ho I don't expect to get everything on a plate, even If I've paid for software. Nothing's perfect and S3D isn't in a few areas, and I anticipate more learning to get this software to work with my printers.

horst.w
 
Posts: 486
Joined: Fri Oct 17, 2014 4:00 pm

Re: Separate support processes for dual extruder

Wed Feb 14, 2018 6:19 pm

@ jgabber

I'm agree with you, the way is not clear and not really logical for the user. But in consequence it is not a real double printing as the message mentioned, because the 2nd process is different to the support printing. And only these differences will be printed.

The 2nd process is a copy of the 1st process and the activation of the support with the 2nd extruder is only available for the 2nd process. So the program can filter out easy identical printing steps. Keep in mind that the message occures before the slicing begins. At this moment the program cann't know what exactly is to do, it knows only that there are 2 processes with a relationship to one and the same object.

The same message occures when you have to print 2 or more objects, each one with an own process and miss to select the objects to their process, will say, all processes would print all objects at the same time. Thats a real fault and the program doesn't filter out duplicates and it makes big trouble. Similar situation is the overlaying of stop - start settings for 2 processes.

H.

rrdavis
 
Posts: 200
Joined: Sat Dec 09, 2017 4:52 am

Re: Separate support processes for dual extruder

Thu Feb 15, 2018 3:31 am

jgabber wrote:I am looking to use my Flashforge dual extruder to print this item and want to use one head to print the supports (ABS) and the second to print the object (TPU (Flex)) The TPU requires a different speed than the ABS, I can find a way to control all of the other differences (Temp and such) per head, but I cannot figure out how to separate the two heads as far as speed goes.

I think the solution is much simpler! If you open the stock FF Creator Dual profile, select the "Both Extruders" option at the top (since you are using both toolheads). Then go to the Supports tab and change the support extruder to the one you want to use for the supports. Last, go to the Speeds tab and adjust the support structure underspeed to control the speed of the supports.

This way you can print the supports with a different extruder and control the exact speed that is used for the supports.

horst.w
 
Posts: 486
Joined: Fri Oct 17, 2014 4:00 pm

Re: Separate support processes for dual extruder

Thu Feb 15, 2018 2:51 pm

@ rrdavis

Youn are right, that is the easiest way to print the support with the 2nd extruder.

But he ask for more universal solution for ABS and TPU:

" I can find a way to control all of the other differences (Temp and such) per head "

and cooling you can only set to different values with additional processes.

H.

rrdavis
 
Posts: 200
Joined: Sat Dec 09, 2017 4:52 am

Re: Separate support processes for dual extruder

Fri Feb 16, 2018 3:45 am

jgabber wrote:but I cannot figure out how to separate the two heads as far as speed goes

Based on his initial post, it sounded like the only thing he was not able to figure out was the speed differences. So if that's the only additional thing he needs to modify, I would go with the much simpler approach.

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