neobobkrause
Posts: 15
Joined: Fri May 30, 2014 6:37 pm

Default supports are flawed

Mon Jun 09, 2014 7:22 pm

I've enclosed a screenshot of a fish laid out in S3D decorated with the supports that were automatically generated using the "Apply based on overhang angle" button of the Support Generation tool. As we can see, there are several flaws worth pointing out...

* The end of the tail is not going to print properly because of the lack of supports.

* The lateral fins aren't going to print properly because no supports were generated for them.

* The first layer of the anterior supports at the center of the base will be printed in mid-air.

* The end of the mouth may not print properly because of the lack of supports.

- Bob

[img]FishFaults.jpg[/img]
Attachments
FishFaults.jpg

dennisjm
Posts: 342
Joined: Wed May 07, 2014 9:51 pm

Re: Default supports are flawed

Wed Jun 11, 2014 11:18 am

I have a similar issue. I'm not exactly wanting to print a great big dragon but I downloaded the model so I could work out some support issues and learn the best way to place and calculate supports. I can't for the life of me seem to get S3D to put any supports under the backs of the wings. I've tried increasing/decreasing distance, changing infill percentages and lots of other things. No luck. Very clear this model would not print right. Not sure what settings I'm missing that might change things.
Screen Shot 2014-06-11 at 9.14.00 AM.png

dalew8abz
Posts: 120
Joined: Mon Mar 25, 2013 12:14 am
Location: Cleveland Heights, Ohio USA (4 mi. from MakerGear HQ!)
Contact: Website

Re: Default supports are flawed

Wed Jun 11, 2014 11:25 pm

Guys,

Try going to the Support tab in the FFF Settings window (showing advanced). In the Automatic Placement section on the right, try reducing the Support Pillar Resolution. I don't remember what the default is, but I have mine set to 1.0 mm, and I get good supports when printing the 2013 Make Magazine shootout "torture test" object, under the arch and the flat. IIRC, I had to reduce this number for it to happen. I think this, and the Separation from Part setting in the box on the lower left needed to be way smaller. You get smaller support structures under more of the object -- not the huge columns I see in the support in your screenshots.

After those, you might dink with the support infill percentage and angles to get the best alignment with the geometry of your print and set it up to not waste too much filament.

Let us know if this helps. I'm working from S3D 'Creator' 1.x memory here (ancient history). :)
Dale

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jimc
Posts: 1124
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Location: mullica, nj
Contact: Website

Re: Default supports are flawed

Thu Jun 12, 2014 12:34 am

also in addition to what dale said you want to increase inflation distance. you have to remember that support is on a grid system so the tip of the tail for instance doesnt have a support because it has not activated the next grid block. reducing the resolution like dale said will help but the inflation distance swells the support a bit to take up that area where the next block isnt activated yet.

dennisjm
Posts: 342
Joined: Wed May 07, 2014 9:51 pm

Re: Default supports are flawed

Thu Jun 12, 2014 4:28 pm

I have tried all those things. The pic I took was with 1mm res (the smallest it will let you go), also had the extra distance increased and I've tried smaller infill settings. None of those settings placed any supports where they are obviously needed.

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jimc
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Location: mullica, nj
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Re: Default supports are flawed

Thu Jun 12, 2014 10:08 pm

dennis can you post the factory file?

dennisjm
Posts: 342
Joined: Wed May 07, 2014 9:51 pm

Re: Default supports are flawed

Fri Jun 13, 2014 11:07 am

It's a 15 meg file so can't upload it here but you can download it from my dropbox:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/201 ... on.factory

I actually got this to print generate supports OK. I made two more mods that I think have solved the issue. One is to decrease the support distance from the model. The other was to add a couple extra mm to the extra distance. I think the first change was needed because since the ends of the wings are a point that the distance between the support structure and the point might have caused it not to think a support was needed at all.

Anyhow, I haven't gone though the sliced model in detail to see if it indeed got them all.

Point is you have to really double check things on a complex model I guess.

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TenKOhms
Posts: 172
Joined: Wed May 14, 2014 3:04 pm

Re: Default supports are flawed

Fri Jun 13, 2014 11:42 am

dennis, try changing your angle of support threshold. I opened your factory file and it looks like you have it set around 55 degrees. I set it to 30 and got very nice supports generated everywhere

[img]Screen%20Shot%202014-06-13%20at%2011.41.11%20AM.png[/img]
Attachments
Screen Shot 2014-06-13 at 11.41.11 AM.png

dennisjm
Posts: 342
Joined: Wed May 07, 2014 9:51 pm

Re: Default supports are flawed

Fri Jun 13, 2014 11:56 am

Did you slice the model? It always looks good in the preview pane.

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TenKOhms
Posts: 172
Joined: Wed May 14, 2014 3:04 pm

Re: Default supports are flawed

Fri Jun 13, 2014 12:01 pm

Sliced fine for me, see attached.
Attachments
Screen Shot 2014-06-13 at 12.00.34 PM.png

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