Max Filament
Posts: 12
Joined: Fri Sep 11, 2015 5:07 pm

Support Separation from part not working as expected. Circular support generation is horrible.

Wed Feb 06, 2019 4:21 am

If I put in the Separation From Part section an value other than zero then I get a separation from part.

In other words if I put in 10 in the Upper Vertical Separation Layers I will indeed get 10 layers of no support below the part that I want to support.

This does indeed make cleanup very easy as there is 10 layers between the part.
But the part above is printed in thin air and is not so easy to "clean up"
Just what is this setting for exactly ? It's kind of counter intuitive.

Supporting circular structures via the automatic support generation is not too flash either.
I have a 25mm circle with a ledge going around the inside.

If I generate auto supports it just puts 4 block structures at 0 45 180 and 270 degrees to support the ledge and the rest of the circle is unsupported.

What ?

S3D-Jake
Posts: 420
Joined: Wed Jun 20, 2018 11:45 am

Re: Support Separation from part not working as expected. Circular support generation is horrible.

Wed Feb 06, 2019 9:46 am

We posted about this on social media fairly recently. For spherical overhangs you can try reducing the vertical separation layers to 0. This provides a closer bond with the part and allows for less drooping.

Upper vertical separation layers default to 1 on all of our profiles. This will leave a gap of 1 layer height between the supports and your part. If you find that this amount is too much you can change to 0 or lower your layer height.
"A bird does not sing because it has an answer. It sings because it has a song."

wirlybird
Posts: 1023
Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2016 12:32 pm

Re: Support Separation from part not working as expected. Circular support generation is horrible.

Wed Feb 06, 2019 10:41 am

For issues with supports not going under circular areas especially on the inside of hole try increasing the Inflation setting to see if it help and also use the dense support option. I find .4 on the inflation is usually pretty good.

Max Filament
Posts: 12
Joined: Fri Sep 11, 2015 5:07 pm

Re: Support Separation from part not working as expected. Circular support generation is horrible.

Thu Feb 07, 2019 1:03 am

Thanks for the replies.
I still think the whole idea and wording of this "feature" is counter intuitive.
I have had some success with using 0 for both upper and lower separation distances.

It still makes no sense at all to me why on earth you would even need to add layers of nothing BENEATH a support. What is is supposed to stick to ?

Something else I have noticed is that dense supports are only added to the TOP of a support. Is that right ?

Decreasing the support resolution down to 1mm helped. But the auto generation is still ordinary at best.
My work around is to auto generate the majority of supports then switch to manual to add more or remove some.

This workflow is really bad.
You can see the supports that are manually/auto generated by the little support tool of to the right. BUT you can't get a quick preview if you have them set in the process ?

The manual addition of supports gives you very few options. Nothing like the process settings. Yet they both seem to interact with each other somehow.

Back and forth we go.... add support. Preview the print. back and forth and on and on.

I also agree it should be in mm not layers.

Printing 0.3 nozzle. It's working but not without a LOT of mucking around.

I see that other slicing software are moving to adding exclusion zones too. What a great idea.

wirlybird
Posts: 1023
Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2016 12:32 pm

Re: Support Separation from part not working as expected. Circular support generation is horrible.

Thu Feb 07, 2019 6:51 am

If you put "0" for upper and or lower separation for supports then they are acting like any other layer and can "stick" or "bond" to the adjacent layer as any other layer would.

For layers that will go on top of supports. Using an upper separation distance of 1 will allow a space equal to 1 layer thickness between the top of the support and the next solid layer. This will reduce the "bond" between the support and the real layer on top of it and should make suppor tremoval a little easier.

For the lower separation distance I usually use 2 so the lower area of the support doesn't stick to the part as bad.

I have not run accros a case where more separation distance is needed.

Dense supports go top and bottom.

Again relating to inner circlular areas such as bold holes. Increase the inflation distance and also the the infill percentage can help to "expand" the support area for the circle.

Max Filament
Posts: 12
Joined: Fri Sep 11, 2015 5:07 pm

Re: Support Separation from part not working as expected. Circular support generation is horrible.

Thu Feb 07, 2019 10:40 pm

Thanks wirlybird.

It looks like it's not even connecting in the preview if you add a separation layer.
It kind of confuses matters.

But yes your settings do work it's true.
I get the extra inflation distance. But don't need it as it does work as it is.
Just painful to get working as I said in my previous post.

FYI. Dense supports do NOT work for bottom layers in my version. 4.1.1
Only for the top.

Playing around with Autodesk inventor netfab premium at the moment. (3 year education license).
Going to try Slic3r too.

Don't get me wrong. I like simplify3d it's just that the supports workflow is kind of sucky. Confusing and unintuitive.
You can't even rotate the manually based supports which makes them ugly in the supports preview and the prepare to print preview.

It's just not great at generating supports for circular structures.
That and the fact that you have to put some parameters in the process file - like separation from part - and then add manual supports which look like they touch in the preview but actually don't in the prepare to print preview is less than satisfactory.

horst.w
Posts: 710
Joined: Fri Oct 17, 2014 4:00 pm

Re: Support Separation from part not working as expected. Circular support generation is horrible.

Fri Feb 08, 2019 2:25 am

Max Filament wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 10:40 pm
...

FYI. Dense supports do NOT work for bottom layers in my version. 4.1.1
Only for the top.

...
Use Support Base Layers!

horst.w
GER

Max Filament
Posts: 12
Joined: Fri Sep 11, 2015 5:07 pm

Re: Support Separation from part not working as expected. Circular support generation is horrible.

Fri Feb 08, 2019 3:32 am

I have tried it.
Even set it to 10 ... none seen on the preview.

User avatar
dkightley
Posts: 1876
Joined: Tue Mar 10, 2015 3:09 pm

Re: Support Separation from part not working as expected. Circular support generation is horrible.

Fri Feb 08, 2019 6:21 am

Can you attach a factory file of an example where you're having difficulties. This will allow us to make realistic suggestions...and offer meaningful advice.

This suggest...try...."It doesn't work" … suggest … try.."It doesn't work" cycle could go on for ever!!!
Doug Kightley
Volunteer at the National Tramway Museum http://www.tramway.co.uk
Railway modeller and webmaster at http://www.talkingtgauge.net

Max Filament
Posts: 12
Joined: Fri Sep 11, 2015 5:07 pm

Re: Support Separation from part not working as expected. Circular support generation is horrible.

Fri Feb 08, 2019 7:33 pm

Simple question do you have dense supports shown in the preview on your prints ?

Return to “Troubleshooting and Bug Reports”