alexH
Posts: 2
Joined: Wed Jun 29, 2016 12:40 pm

Extrusion (wall thickness) problem

Wed Jun 29, 2016 1:48 pm

Hi,

just received my simplify3d an got some odd problems:
CTC 3d with sailfish
Nozzle: 0.4
Extrusion Width: 0.44
Extrusion Multiplier: 1.00

Extruder is calibrated right (100mm are 100mm), but when printing, a single line is about 0.8-0.85mm thick. And so the inner perimeters (holes) are about 0.4mm too small. Infill is good, little over extruded.
When changing Extrusion Multiplier to 0.5 i got a single line thickness of 0.44mm but infill is quiet poor, unusable.
Also printing speed of the first layer doesn't seem to be affected by first layer speed reduction...

When printing with Makerbot Desktop or slicer, line thickness & infill are good.

Would appreciate any hints how to fix this, added my settings below.

Regards
Alex

Code: Select all

; G-Code generated by Simplify3D(R) Version 3.1.0
; Jun 29, 2016 at 7:47:12 
; Settings Summary
;   processName,Process1
;   applyToModels,Bauteil1
;   profileName,CTC Bizer Dual
;   profileVersion,2016-06-08 08:00:00
;   baseProfile,
;   printMaterial,PETG
;   printQuality,Medium
;   printExtruders,Right Extruder Only
;   extruderName,Right Extruder,Left Extruder
;   extruderToolheadNumber,0,1
;   extruderDiameter,0.4,0.4
;   extruderAutoWidth,0,0
;   extruderWidth,0.4,0.4
;   extrusionMultiplier,0.5,1
;   extruderUseRetract,1,1
;   extruderRetractionDistance,0.5,0.5
;   extruderExtraRestartDistance,0,0
;   extruderRetractionZLift,0,0
;   extruderRetractionSpeed,1200,1200
;   extruderUseCoasting,0,0
;   extruderCoastingDistance,0.2,0.2
;   extruderUseWipe,0,0
;   extruderWipeDistance,5,5
;   primaryExtruder,0
;   layerHeight,0.15
;   topSolidLayers,3
;   bottomSolidLayers,3
;   perimeterOutlines,2
;   printPerimetersInsideOut,1
;   startPointOption,2
;   startPointOriginX,0
;   startPointOriginY,0
;   startPointOriginZ,300
;   sequentialIslands,0
;   spiralVaseMode,0
;   firstLayerHeightPercentage,100
;   firstLayerWidthPercentage,100
;   firstLayerUnderspeed,0.25
;   useRaft,0
;   raftExtruder,0
;   raftLayers,3
;   raftOffset,3
;   raftSeparationDistance,0.14
;   raftInfill,85
;   disableRaftBaseLayers,0
;   useSkirt,1
;   skirtExtruder,0
;   skirtLayers,1
;   skirtOutlines,3
;   skirtOffset,4
;   usePrimePillar,0
;   primePillarExtruder,999
;   primePillarWidth,12
;   primePillarLocation,7
;   primePillarSpeedMultiplier,1
;   useOozeShield,0
;   oozeShieldExtruder,999
;   oozeShieldOffset,2
;   oozeShieldOutlines,1
;   oozeShieldSidewallShape,1
;   oozeShieldSidewallAngle,30
;   oozeShieldSpeedMultiplier,1
;   infillExtruder,0
;   internalInfillPattern,Rectilinear
;   externalInfillPattern,Rectilinear
;   infillPercentage,100
;   outlineOverlapPercentage,25
;   infillExtrusionWidthPercentage,150
;   minInfillLength,0.5
;   infillLayerInterval,1
;   infillAngles,45,-45
;   overlapInfillAngles,0
;   generateSupport,0
;   supportExtruder,0
;   supportInfillPercentage,30
;   supportExtraInflation,0
;   denseSupportLayers,0
;   denseSupportInfillPercentage,70
;   supportLayerInterval,1
;   supportHorizontalPartOffset,0.3
;   supportUpperSeparationLayers,1
;   supportLowerSeparationLayers,1
;   supportType,0
;   supportGridSpacing,4
;   maxOverhangAngle,45
;   supportAngles,0
;   temperatureName,Right Extruder,Left Extruder,Heated Build Platform
;   temperatureNumber,0,1,0
;   temperatureSetpointCount,1,1,2
;   temperatureSetpointLayers,1,1,1,2
;   temperatureSetpointTemperatures,220,0,95,75
;   temperatureStabilizeAtStartup,0,0,0
;   temperatureHeatedBed,0,0,1
;   temperatureRelayBetweenLayers,0,0,0
;   temperatureRelayBetweenLoops,0,0,0
;   fanLayers,1
;   fanSpeeds,0
;   blipFanToFullPower,0
;   adjustSpeedForCooling,1
;   minSpeedLayerTime,18
;   minCoolingSpeedSlowdown,20
;   increaseFanForCooling,0
;   minFanLayerTime,45
;   maxCoolingFanSpeed,100
;   increaseFanForBridging,1
;   bridgingFanSpeed,100
;   use5D,1
;   relativeEdistances,1
;   allowEaxisZeroing,0
;   independentExtruderAxes,1
;   includeM10123,0
;   stickySupport,1
;   applyToolheadOffsets,0
;   gcodeXoffset,0
;   gcodeYoffset,0
;   gcodeZoffset,0
;   overrideMachineDefinition,1
;   machineTypeOverride,0
;   strokeXoverride,220
;   strokeYoverride,130
;   strokeZoverride,120
;   originOffsetXoverride,110
;   originOffsetYoverride,65
;   originOffsetZoverride,0
;   homeXdirOverride,1
;   homeYdirOverride,1
;   homeZdirOverride,-1
;   flipXoverride,1
;   flipYoverride,-1
;   flipZoverride,1
;   toolheadOffsets,0,0|34,0|0,0|0,0|0,0|0,0
;   overrideFirmwareConfiguration,1
;   firmwareTypeOverride,MakerBot/Sailfish Firmware
;   GPXconfigOverride,r1d
;   baudRateOverride,115200
;   overridePrinterModels,1
;   printerModelsOverride,MakerBot_Replicator1.stl
;   startingGcode,; **** Replicator 1 dual start.gcode ****,M73 P0 ; Enable build progress,G162 X Y F3000 ; Home XY maximum,G161 Z F1200 ; Home Z minimum,G92 Z-5 ; Set Z to -5,G1 Z0 ; Move Z to 0,G161 Z F100 ; Home Z slowly,M132 X Y Z A B ; Recall home offsets,M135 T0 ; Load right extruder offsets,G1 X-110 Y-60 Z30 F9000 ; Move to wait position off table,G130 X20 Y20 Z20 A20 B20 ; Lower stepper Vrefs while heating,M126 S[fan_speed_pwm] ; Set fan speed,M140 S[bed0_temperature] T0 ; Heat buildplate ,M134 T0 ; Stabilize bed temperature,M104 S[extruder0_temperature] T0 ; Heat right extruder,M133 T0 ; Stabilize right extruder temperature,G130 X127 Y127 Z40 A127 B127 ; Default stepper Vrefs,G92 A0 B0 ; Zero extruders,G1 X100 Y-60 F9000 ; Move to front right corner of bed,G1 Z0.3 F6000 ; Move down to purge,G1 X-80 Y-60 E24 F2000 ; Extrude a line of filament across the front edge of the bed,G1 X-90 Y-60 F180 ; Wait for ooze,G1 X-100 Y-60 F5000 ; Fast wipe,G1 Z0.5 F100 ; Lift,M73 P1 ;@body (notify GPX body has started),; **** end of start.gcode ****
;   layerChangeGcode,
;   retractionGcode,
;   toolChangeGcode,
;   endingGcode,; **** Replicator 1 dual end.gcode ****,M73 P100 ; end build progress,G1 Z150 F1000 ; send Z axis to bottom of machine,M140 S0 T0 ; cool down HBP,M104 S0 T0 ; cool down right extruder,M104 S0 T1 ; cool down left extruder,M127 ; stop blower fan,G162 X Y F3000 ; home XY maximum,M18 ; disable stepper,M72 P1 ; play Ta-Da song,; **** end of end.gcode ****
;   exportFileFormat,x3g
;   celebration,0
;   celebrationSong,Random Song
;   postProcessing,
;   defaultSpeed,2000
;   outlineUnderspeed,0.5
;   solidInfillUnderspeed,0.8
;   supportUnderspeed,0.8
;   rapidXYspeed,2500
;   rapidZspeed,600
;   minBridgingArea,50
;   bridgingExtraInflation,0
;   bridgingExtrusionMultiplier,1
;   bridgingSpeedMultiplier,0.8
;   filamentDiameter,1.75
;   filamentPricePerKg,46
;   filamentDensity,1.25
;   useMinPrintHeight,0
;   minPrintHeight,0
;   useMaxPrintHeight,0
;   maxPrintHeight,0
;   useDiaphragm,0
;   diaphragmLayerInterval,20
;   robustSlicing,1
;   mergeAllIntoSolid,0
;   onlyRetractWhenCrossingOutline,1
;   retractBetweenLayers,1
;   useRetractionMinTravel,0
;   retractionMinTravel,3
;   retractWhileWiping,0
;   onlyWipeOutlines,1
;   avoidCrossingOutline,1
;   maxMovementDetourFactor,3
;   toolChangeRetractionDistance,12
;   toolChangeExtraRestartDistance,-0.5
;   toolChangeRetractionSpeed,600
;   allowThinWallGapFill,1
;   thinWallAllowedOverlapPercentage,10
;   horizontalSizeCompensation,0
G90
M83
; **** Replicator 1 dual start.gcode ****
M73 P0 ; Enable build progress
G162 X Y F3000 ; Home XY maximum
G161 Z F1200 ; Home Z minimum
G92 Z-5 ; Set Z to -5
G1 Z0 ; Move Z to 0
G161 Z F100 ; Home Z slowly
M132 X Y Z A B ; Recall home offsets
M135 T0 ; Load right extruder offsets
G1 X-110 Y-60 Z30 F9000 ; Move to wait position off table
G130 X20 Y20 Z20 A20 B20 ; Lower stepper Vrefs while heating
M127 ; Set fan speed
M140 S95 T0 ; Heat buildplate 
M134 T0 ; Stabilize bed temperature
M104 S220 T0 ; Heat right extruder
M133 T0 ; Stabilize right extruder temperature
G130 X127 Y127 Z40 A127 B127 ; Default stepper Vrefs
G92 A0 B0 ; Zero extruders
G1 X100 Y-60 F9000 ; Move to front right corner of bed
G1 Z0.3 F6000 ; Move down to purge
G1 X-80 Y-60 E24 F2000 ; Extrude a line of filament across the front edge of the bed
G1 X-90 Y-60 F180 ; Wait for ooze
G1 X-100 Y-60 F5000 ; Fast wipe
G1 Z0.5 F100 ; Lift
M73 P1 ;@body (notify GPX body has started)
; **** end of start.gcode ****
G1 E-0.5000 F1200
G1 Z0.150 F600
; layer 1, Z = 0.15
M135 T0
; tool H0.150 W0.400

CompoundCarl
Posts: 2005
Joined: Wed Aug 05, 2015 7:23 am

Re: Extrusion (wall thickness) problem

Thu Jun 30, 2016 5:18 am

Why don't you tell us more about how you made that measurement? What layer did you measure? Was it the first layer? Or did you print 50 or so layers and only measure the thickness of the extrusions on the top few layers?

If you have first layer positioning issues, they can easily affect the extrusion width, so you really want to be printing 50 or more layers and then only measuring the extrusions near the top of the part so that the first layer positioning isn't a factor.

There's plenty of threads on the forum about similar topics though, so a search would probably also give you some good advice ;)

dorsai3d
Posts: 237
Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2016 9:01 am

Re: Extrusion (wall thickness) problem

Thu Jun 30, 2016 11:04 am

Also, are you sure that you're only printing one perimeter? or are you using a thin walled STL that actually gets two passes (one inner, one outer? To measure wall thickness, print a solid cube with 1 perimeter and 0 infill, then stop it once it gets a couple millimeters up so that you're past the squished out layers at the bottom. For example, I find that usually my first 0.5 mm or so in Z is about 0.2mm expanded, both inwards and outwards, so it would be easy to measure 0.84 mm thickness on an otherwise good 0.44mm wall if you measure the bottom.

alexH
Posts: 2
Joined: Wed Jun 29, 2016 12:40 pm

Re: Extrusion (wall thickness) problem

Sat Jul 02, 2016 3:10 pm

hi,

Measured the top layers printed 5mm high.

Thx dorsai3d you gave me the right direction.
I used a selfgenerated 0.5mm thin wall.
It indeed prints 2times the outer perimeter, so wall thickness was doubled.
Didn't expect this when setting perimeters to 1. Looking at gcode it was clear.

When activating "Merge all outlines into a single solid model" it prints only one line.
After calibrating the line thickness as a solid model it prints fine.

Thanks
Alex

User avatar
jimc
Posts: 1124
Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2013 11:02 pm
Location: mullica, nj
Contact: Website

Re: Extrusion (wall thickness) problem

Sat Jul 02, 2016 7:44 pm

In addition to wha these guys said, be sure your filament dia is actually what your filament measures. Also, your multiplier will never be .5, thats too low. Your infill wint print because you are under extruding. Multiplier will always be 9.0 - 1.05 if your dia is set right. This was mentioned prior but your test object must be a solid cube not a bar or thin wall object. Remember an extrusion is always placed on a surface. Thin wall object have 2 surfaces.

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