I also have first layer and top layer issues using auto extrusion, I can compensate somewhat by using the extrusion jog control and force over extrusion
but this is an inelegant and awkward solution and requires one to be present to adjust. As jd_3d has stated they are working on a fix for the next
release hopefully this will repair the first layer and capping issues.
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dalew8abz
- Posts: 120
- Joined: Mon Mar 25, 2013 12:14 am
- Location: Cleveland Heights, Ohio USA (4 mi. from MakerGear HQ!)
- Contact: Website
Re: First Layer Issues
Scott, Chuck, and all,
For the first layer, I have this suspicion that the software thinks the gap between the nozzle and the bed is ZERO and is incrementing the Z-axis by the first layer thickness before printing. Perhaps a Z offset of -(first layer height) would get the nozzle "where all the other slicers put it" for the first layer. I have been using a .2mm layer thickness on my M2, and I never got solid bottoms until I set the Z offset to like -0.15mm... and I level the bed using a single sheet of copier/printer paper, not two. So maybe that combination is getting Z started where it starts with Slic3r. (Scott, I was getting the separate strings like you got until I put in the negative Z offset, so give that a try.)
Can't help you on the top layer. Mine seems to print like a solid infill layer, with the motion along the angles set for infill. My parts recently have been fairly rectangular, and I'm thinking of changing the infill angles to 0 and 90 just to see if the top comes out better that way.
I haven't used Slic3r, so I can't compare. When it "caps" a part, does it print the layer(s) thinner, or extrude more, or use a smaller Z increment to try to "moosh" the plastic flat and fill in to the perimeter? Does it print the top layer(s) at a different angle than the infill? (I'm sure it does if the infill is hexagonal...)
I found that Creator was doing the rapid X/Y move from the end of one layer to the start of the next BEFORE incrementing Z by the layer thickness, resulting in some clonking on the surface of the part, and I've suggested that they do the rapid AFTER doing the Z step. Maybe there's something related to that with the first layer -- moving Z at the wrong time. I guess I should download Slic3r and start comparing G-code for timing, size of Z steps, X/Y speed and extrusion speed on the first layer(s), between a couple middle layers, and on the last layer(s) to see what's different and get to the root of the problem......
No, I don't work for S3D. Just trying to help....
Dale
For the first layer, I have this suspicion that the software thinks the gap between the nozzle and the bed is ZERO and is incrementing the Z-axis by the first layer thickness before printing. Perhaps a Z offset of -(first layer height) would get the nozzle "where all the other slicers put it" for the first layer. I have been using a .2mm layer thickness on my M2, and I never got solid bottoms until I set the Z offset to like -0.15mm... and I level the bed using a single sheet of copier/printer paper, not two. So maybe that combination is getting Z started where it starts with Slic3r. (Scott, I was getting the separate strings like you got until I put in the negative Z offset, so give that a try.)
Can't help you on the top layer. Mine seems to print like a solid infill layer, with the motion along the angles set for infill. My parts recently have been fairly rectangular, and I'm thinking of changing the infill angles to 0 and 90 just to see if the top comes out better that way.
I haven't used Slic3r, so I can't compare. When it "caps" a part, does it print the layer(s) thinner, or extrude more, or use a smaller Z increment to try to "moosh" the plastic flat and fill in to the perimeter? Does it print the top layer(s) at a different angle than the infill? (I'm sure it does if the infill is hexagonal...)
I found that Creator was doing the rapid X/Y move from the end of one layer to the start of the next BEFORE incrementing Z by the layer thickness, resulting in some clonking on the surface of the part, and I've suggested that they do the rapid AFTER doing the Z step. Maybe there's something related to that with the first layer -- moving Z at the wrong time. I guess I should download Slic3r and start comparing G-code for timing, size of Z steps, X/Y speed and extrusion speed on the first layer(s), between a couple middle layers, and on the last layer(s) to see what's different and get to the root of the problem......
No, I don't work for S3D. Just trying to help....
Dale
Re: First Layer Issues
i just posted this on the mg google group so i figured i would do a copy paste here. i am just a beginner at this as well so take it for what its worth but this has been my observations.
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well for the first layer anyway i have found this to all boils down to the layer height. i can get a first layer with open spaces all the way down to it being so over filled that the ext tip just pushes plastic around. everything concerning the printer and creator have been fantastic except i have had to fight with first layer height adjustments for the past week of owning the machine to get it right. it needs to be much more of a precise setting that i originally thought it would need. its all a balance of z height end adjstment and the %of height on 1st layer adjustment. standard settings in creator have layer 1 height set at 85%. well that means nothing really unless all machines were set at the exact same z end height. your 85% could put the same thickness line down as my machine set at 150% with different z end height adjustments. it only takes 1 or 2 thousandths of and inch to make a difference. be sure to check your bed for being flat as well. mine is actually bowed up .1-.12 in the middle which i didnt realize and it was throwing me all off. right now it works ok for small parts in the center of the bed but im going to have to do something about it soon. i guess its the glass.
as for the top cap on the parts, im right there with ya. creator doesnt seem to cap anything i print with a flat top. if the top is curved it does it because i think its actually not capping and its just the side wall stepping over each layer so basically it looks capped. i think/hope this is in the fix on the next update.
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well for the first layer anyway i have found this to all boils down to the layer height. i can get a first layer with open spaces all the way down to it being so over filled that the ext tip just pushes plastic around. everything concerning the printer and creator have been fantastic except i have had to fight with first layer height adjustments for the past week of owning the machine to get it right. it needs to be much more of a precise setting that i originally thought it would need. its all a balance of z height end adjstment and the %of height on 1st layer adjustment. standard settings in creator have layer 1 height set at 85%. well that means nothing really unless all machines were set at the exact same z end height. your 85% could put the same thickness line down as my machine set at 150% with different z end height adjustments. it only takes 1 or 2 thousandths of and inch to make a difference. be sure to check your bed for being flat as well. mine is actually bowed up .1-.12 in the middle which i didnt realize and it was throwing me all off. right now it works ok for small parts in the center of the bed but im going to have to do something about it soon. i guess its the glass.
as for the top cap on the parts, im right there with ya. creator doesnt seem to cap anything i print with a flat top. if the top is curved it does it because i think its actually not capping and its just the side wall stepping over each layer so basically it looks capped. i think/hope this is in the fix on the next update.
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Tshulthise
- Posts: 12
- Joined: Wed Oct 16, 2013 5:44 pm
Re: First Layer Issues
What settings are affected by the "extrusion width" setting? I've noticed that prints look really bad most often when I use "manual extrusion width" but they generally look good when I use auto. The problem is that auto almost always uses a width wider than the nozzle and its hard to control dimensions.
What is the best way to control feature sizes other than manual extrusion width control? Any general rules of thumb regarding what significant settings are related to other settings?
What is the best way to control feature sizes other than manual extrusion width control? Any general rules of thumb regarding what significant settings are related to other settings?
Re: First Layer Issues
To me it looks like your first layer height % is to low or your Z-endstop adjustment bolt needs to be set. or both. Its a really simple fix either way. I would start with the Endstop bolt first if you havent changed the first layer %.
I like The way my first layers print with 90-100% I think the stock setting is 85% This adjustment works like infill, so it spaces lines out lower you go. You can make this work properly with a range of settings by adjusting the Z stop height.
Also, your bed to nozzle distance looks to be to big. This is simply adjusted mechanically by the bolt next to the Z rails. The Z-stage adjustment is a pretty common adjustment you will have to make.
I like The way my first layers print with 90-100% I think the stock setting is 85% This adjustment works like infill, so it spaces lines out lower you go. You can make this work properly with a range of settings by adjusting the Z stop height.
Also, your bed to nozzle distance looks to be to big. This is simply adjusted mechanically by the bolt next to the Z rails. The Z-stage adjustment is a pretty common adjustment you will have to make.
