smartavionics
Posts: 52
Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2014 3:46 am

Re: Top Layer has not enough overlap over the Infill.

This is such a major omission on s3d's part, I can't believe they are happy with it behaving like it does. But, they still haven't fixed it and they have known about it for quite some time now as I exchanged emails with them over 9 months ago. This is what I said...

Code: Select all

Hello Joey,

I attach a factory file that illustrates the problem.

The solid layer on top of the "arms" of the part stops immediately
underneath the perimeters of the central boss. I believe it would be
much better if the solid layers extended beyond the perimeters well
into the central area. Indeed, if the raised item isn't actually very
big then the solid layers should go all the way across. As it is, the
part is very weak because when it is flexed, the solid layer breaks
away from the perimeter of the raised boss.

What you are doing at the moment is:

xxxxxxxxxxxxxx||
xxxxxxxxxxxxxx||
xxxxxxxxxxxxxx||
xxxxxxxxxxxxxx------------------
xxxxxxxxxxxxxx------------------
xxxxxxxxxxxxxx------------------
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

It should be like this:

xxxxxxxxxxxxxx||
xxxxxxxxxxxxxx||
xxxxxxxxxxxxxx||
xxxxx---------------------------
xxxxx---------------------------
xxxxx---------------------------
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Where x = infill, - = solid layer and | = perimeter.

The solid layers should extend far enough into the infill
region so that they cross at least one infill filament before
finishing. That gives the solid layer filament a chance to "grip" on
something rather than just stopping in mid air (in the gaps between the
infill filaments) like it does at the moment. Paradoxically, using
larger infill diameter (say 200%) makes the problem worse because the
gaps in the infill get larger. The solid layers should take that into
account and reach the far side of the infill "diamond" before stopping.

If you don't think that everyone would like that, why not add a
parameter that specifies how far solid layers should project into
infilled regions? Then we can tweak it to our satisfaction.

A related area which I think S3D gets wrong is that it puts infill
below small raised features like this:

               --
               --
---------------xx-------------
---------------xx-------------
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Doing this means that the top layers are segmented and that produces
visible smears and changes in texture which detract from the look of
the part. I believe it would be far better if it simply did this for
small raised features:

               --
               --
------------------------------
------------------------------
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

That way, the solid layers can be printed in larger pieces (obviously
depending on what other features are present) and the visual quality of
the part is improved.
I'm reverting back to using slic3r more and more now simply to get parts that are decently strong.
User avatar
hairykiwi
Posts: 7
Joined: Sun Oct 05, 2014 6:28 am
Location: Ledbury, UK
Contact: Website

Re: Top Layer has not enough overlap over the Infill.

Hello S3D,

Please could you at least acknowledge this thread - officially or unofficially. It has after all been some while since the issue was first reported.

I do like a lot about S3D and have in the past recommend it and the forum-based product support without hesitation. This issue, together with your apparent lack of acknowledgement to the growing number of users discovering it only means I feel obliged to start adding words of caution to my endorsement of S3D however.

If it is a technically challenging problem to solve, or you're quietly working on it, or it's not a priority for some reason, please let us know - I'm sure you'd get plenty of understanding from your generally otherwise-delighted user-base.

Sincerely,
User avatar
jimc
Posts: 1124
Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2013 11:02 pm
Location: mullica, nj
Contact: Website

Re: Top Layer has not enough overlap over the Infill.

once again, this is not s3d support. s3d does not post here. if you want to talk to s3d support then you need to email them.
tenaja
Posts: 156
Joined: Wed Dec 17, 2014 5:16 pm

Re: Top Layer has not enough overlap over the Infill.

jimc wrote:once again, this is not s3d support. s3d does not post here. if you want to talk to s3d support then you need to email them.
Apparently their title of "Troubleshooting and Bug Reports" is misleading.
CompoundCarl
Posts: 2005
Joined: Wed Aug 05, 2015 7:23 am

Re: Top Layer has not enough overlap over the Infill.

hairykiwi wrote:I do like a lot about S3D and have in the past recommend it and the forum-based product support without hesitation.
You know that they have several employees who provide customer support via email right? I've probably exchanged 100 emails with them over the last year. Usually always respond within a day or two. So if you want to talk to the developers or need support for them, just contact them: https://www.simplify3d.com/contact-us/

And as has been said many times, this is a user forum. So if you want help from other users, you can post here. However, I know from emailing with them that their employees also read these forums multiple times a day. So I'm sure they are reviewing the bugs and feature requests that people post. If you don't believe me, feel free to email them and ask ;)
User avatar
hairykiwi
Posts: 7
Joined: Sun Oct 05, 2014 6:28 am
Location: Ledbury, UK
Contact: Website

Re: Top Layer has not enough overlap over the Infill.

Guys, Thanks for taking the time to reply - it is appreciated.

Unfortunately user:smartavionics reportedly had no significant follow up reply to the email he sent S3D about this particular matter, so I really don't see what benefit it would bring any of us if I also write on the same matter.

Also, I have to agree with tenaja.

I very much hope S3D might one day use this forum to its full advantage - it's a far more efficient way to communicate non-private matters than email. By way of two examples, check out these two fora: MoI3D and SiliconLabs; the first is run by a one man band, the other a multi-national - both are shining examples of how a forum can be used to provide outstanding customer care, publicly demonstrate that each is engaged with its users and thereby engender deep product loyalty. That can only help to generate new business.

I only wish the best for S3D - please accept all my comments and feedback in the constructive manner in which they are intended.
Mozak
Posts: 7
Joined: Sat Feb 20, 2016 5:12 pm

Re: Top Layer has not enough overlap over the Infill.

I'm not going to lie. I'm a bit disappointed with this software. Before I spent the $200 Canadian on it, I read forums and reviews and found, for the most part, everybody raving about how easy and great it was. I won't argue that point. Indeed, it is quite easy and fairly intuitive. However, how easy a piece of software is to use has no bearing on how capable it is. I have found 2 significant bugs now that have been reported and debated and discussed with no action from S3D. This "top layer failure" bug is terrible. The point is to have a 3d printed object that is usable as well as presentable and pleasing to look at. The way this software slices and extrudes the top layers is simply wrong, as has been discussed in this thread. Why is this happening in a paid piece of software? This is something that might be found in a beta iteration, not a paid version.

Furthermore, I don't know if any of you have dealt with the "bridging fan speed override" bug but that one is completely illogical as well. When extruding a bridge, the software treats the perimeter layers as "non-bridge" and hence extrudes at normal speed and without the fan override setting. Of course then, those bridge perimeter layers print in mid air at normal speed (as though they are being laid down on top of a solid layer) and end up resembling something my cat coughed up. Once that has happened though, the software extrudes the infill with the bridge override settings (in my case quicker, with less extrusion and with fan at 100% briefly) but since there is nothing for the infill to attach to, it quickly turns into a big pile of bird crap on the build plate. I've emailed S3D about this and was told at first that, my "new feature request" could be forwarded to the development team. When I asked for clarification about exactly what "new features" they thought I was requesting, someone else replied that it looked like I wasn't requesting a new feature but was instead requesting an "improvement" to an old feature. Pardon??? No. I'm requesting that the bug be fixed. Its not an improvement. It's a bug fix.

Anyway, that's my rant. The software has great potential and I truly hope the development team corrects these issues. However, as many have said in a number of threads, I find myself going back to Slic3r too often which leaves me with some resentment towards S3D.
EdoHamburg
Posts: 6
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2015 10:46 am

Re: Top Layer has not enough overlap over the Infill.

It seems to be fixed in 3.1 - isn't it?
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dkightley
Posts: 2405
Joined: Tue Mar 10, 2015 4:09 pm

Re: Top Layer has not enough overlap over the Infill.

It seems to be fixed in 3.1 - isn't it?
Just done a comparison between 3.0.2 and 3.1.....and the behaviour is identical!
Doug Kightley
Volunteer at the National Tramway Museum http://www.tramway.co.uk
Railway modeller and webmaster at http://www.talkingtgauge.net
FalloutBe
Posts: 31
Joined: Sat Jan 16, 2016 5:21 am

Re: Top Layer has not enough overlap over the Infill.

Same for me, no change for this issue in the last update.

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