I am trying to print the star wars shuttle (mars scuttle)
I have had no problem printing this on my replicator mini (though the wings never worked)
now that I have my maker select so finely tuned I wanted to try it again (and larger)
but I keep having a problem with the ventral fin. the fin is only attached to the bed by a very tiny amount with a pretty aggressive overhang.
the printer handles it fine but for one problem. the tip likes to warp. normally just cosmetic but simplify likes to gcode this so it STARTS from the tip when it prints each layer.
of couse the TIP is what is warping so in pretty short order the head crashes into that warped tip and knocks it off the print bed (I even GLUED it down and it did not help) eventually that seperate tip JOINS the rest of the body was hoping to get it to stick around till that point.
the small pic is the start the second is the result. this time it built on the sphagetting so I am letting it go but as you can see it still warps. this time I got luck and the tip warped up then down again so the head does not hit so hard when it hits the next layer. it might actually make it this time.
is there anyway for me to force simplify to start each layer of that component from the root instead of from the tip? this would not stop the warping but would stop the collision with the warp and stop it from knocking that bit off the bed.
Re: Keep knocking a print off the bed. warping collisions.
You're not suffering from warping! You're suffering from an excessive overhang that is crying out for some support.
That section of the model needs some support....and I'd check you have perimeter printing inside-out as opposed to outside-in.
S3D does have an option in the FFF settings to change the start points....but I very much doubt changing it will improve your print.
That section of the model needs some support....and I'd check you have perimeter printing inside-out as opposed to outside-in.
S3D does have an option in the FFF settings to change the start points....but I very much doubt changing it will improve your print.
Doug Kightley
Volunteer at the National Tramway Museum http://www.tramway.co.uk
Railway modeller and webmaster at http://www.talkingtgauge.net
Volunteer at the National Tramway Museum http://www.tramway.co.uk
Railway modeller and webmaster at http://www.talkingtgauge.net
Re: Keep knocking a print off the bed. warping collisions.
I agree and I disagree. this MODEL does not need support. I have printed this kind of overhang many many times without any support and it comes out fine and is in fact designed to be printed without support. alas if your printer (like mine) has a penchant for warping... grrrr.
however. not on this printer. this printer does not appear to handle the overhangs well.
as you can see in the picture itself. it was handling the overhang just fine. had it not warped up it would have printed just fine.
my replicator mini handled them with amazing results.
the problem IS warping. support might simply stop the warping from ruining the print (and I have had a part warp hard enough to pull away from the support). the tip warps up and the printer wants to print that section "from" the tip so eventually it warps up enough that the nozzle crashes into the warped tip and breaks it free from the bed.
many times if I manually stick my finger in their and push the warp down for enough layers it stops warping to that extent but this one kept doing it after I had left. Grrr.
I try to avoid support for while S3D is fantastic for support it still messes up the bottom surface and takes a huge amount of time to print. although honestly on a 36 hour print I guess it would not add that much.
I am adding manual "walls" to the model that I can later slice away myself for a cleaner finish (I hope)
we shall see. since the mini had VERY little problem with overhangs but this one does I was hoping maybe a setting might help with it.
I am thinking part of the issue is the mini likes to print a lot hotter (217-225 for PLA) and maybe the plastic droops more so it does not warp up ?? (I don't know enough about the chemistry and physics involved here to answer that ie just a guess)
I do have inside out perimeters set.
however. not on this printer. this printer does not appear to handle the overhangs well.
as you can see in the picture itself. it was handling the overhang just fine. had it not warped up it would have printed just fine.
my replicator mini handled them with amazing results.
the problem IS warping. support might simply stop the warping from ruining the print (and I have had a part warp hard enough to pull away from the support). the tip warps up and the printer wants to print that section "from" the tip so eventually it warps up enough that the nozzle crashes into the warped tip and breaks it free from the bed.
many times if I manually stick my finger in their and push the warp down for enough layers it stops warping to that extent but this one kept doing it after I had left. Grrr.
I try to avoid support for while S3D is fantastic for support it still messes up the bottom surface and takes a huge amount of time to print. although honestly on a 36 hour print I guess it would not add that much.
I am adding manual "walls" to the model that I can later slice away myself for a cleaner finish (I hope)
we shall see. since the mini had VERY little problem with overhangs but this one does I was hoping maybe a setting might help with it.
I am thinking part of the issue is the mini likes to print a lot hotter (217-225 for PLA) and maybe the plastic droops more so it does not warp up ?? (I don't know enough about the chemistry and physics involved here to answer that ie just a guess)
I do have inside out perimeters set.
Re: Keep knocking a print off the bed. warping collisions.
I agree with Doug.
When I see that type of warping I immediately add support, manually if need be, and it fixes the problem.
My view of what happens is this:
1) As the extruder nozzle passes over the unsupported section, the pressure of the extruding plastic forces the unsupported piece down somewhat, so the deposited bead of plastic is thicker than it should be.
2) Then when the head passes on, the unsupported section springs back up, both from normal spring action and from the shrinkage of the (thicker than normal) top layer that was just deposited onto the thin part.
Adding support means the section A) doesn't sag down under extrusion pressure from the nozzle, so the layer is deposited at its intended thickness; and it also means that B) the section is held down by its attachment to the support, which keeps it from curving up as the top layer cools.
That's my theory as to the "why" of it, anyhow. And, for me, adding support virtually always eliminates the problem.
You could also try setting S3D to raise the nozzle during moves (Extruder tab, Retraction Vertical Lift), which will help, but I've found it's usually just a band-aid and that adding supports is the more reliable fix.
When I see that type of warping I immediately add support, manually if need be, and it fixes the problem.
My view of what happens is this:
1) As the extruder nozzle passes over the unsupported section, the pressure of the extruding plastic forces the unsupported piece down somewhat, so the deposited bead of plastic is thicker than it should be.
2) Then when the head passes on, the unsupported section springs back up, both from normal spring action and from the shrinkage of the (thicker than normal) top layer that was just deposited onto the thin part.
Adding support means the section A) doesn't sag down under extrusion pressure from the nozzle, so the layer is deposited at its intended thickness; and it also means that B) the section is held down by its attachment to the support, which keeps it from curving up as the top layer cools.
That's my theory as to the "why" of it, anyhow. And, for me, adding support virtually always eliminates the problem.
You could also try setting S3D to raise the nozzle during moves (Extruder tab, Retraction Vertical Lift), which will help, but I've found it's usually just a band-aid and that adding supports is the more reliable fix.
Re: Keep knocking a print off the bed. warping collisions.
P.S.:
You've probably figured this out yourself (it took me *way* too long to start doing it, but I'm slow), but in case not:
When troubleshooting a problem near the top of a long print, "submerging" most of the model below the print surface as S3D lets you do gives you a relatively quick way to test print problem solutions by starting the print operation just slightly below the feature you need to test.
I finally started doing that after having problems with a 14-hour print with support issues 2/3 of the way up the part. I'd been chopping off the bottom parts of my model in my CAD software before submitting it to S3D to print, to solve that issue, but having S3D do it for you is a big time-saver.
You've probably figured this out yourself (it took me *way* too long to start doing it, but I'm slow), but in case not:
When troubleshooting a problem near the top of a long print, "submerging" most of the model below the print surface as S3D lets you do gives you a relatively quick way to test print problem solutions by starting the print operation just slightly below the feature you need to test.
I finally started doing that after having problems with a 14-hour print with support issues 2/3 of the way up the part. I'd been chopping off the bottom parts of my model in my CAD software before submitting it to S3D to print, to solve that issue, but having S3D do it for you is a big time-saver.
