+1
This is one of the longest threads on the fourm, and it really needs to be fixed in the software. S3D is the only (afaik) paid slicer, and to have this long-standing issue, isn't really acceptable. S3D is a really good piece of software, but this is one of those things that sorely needs to be greatly improved.
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smeagollum
- Posts: 38
- Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2017 11:13 am
Re: Slicer behavior for thin walled sections
This is a thing I struggle with a lot as well in simplify3d, if a model has long thin walls they will often end up completely hollow inside and very weak since the perimeter shells aren't connected.
I don't know what would be the best way to fix it, I think a clever way to do it could be to add an extra internal perimeter made from line segments like
-- -- -- -- -- -- -- and so on, that way if there isn't enough space for a complete perimeter line, the overflowing plastic should just fill up the gaps instead of building up too much pressure in the extruder.
Or maybe you could lower the extrusion feed rate for the internal filler perimeter depending on the distance, I am sure there are many ways to accomplish stronger walls
I don't know what would be the best way to fix it, I think a clever way to do it could be to add an extra internal perimeter made from line segments like
-- -- -- -- -- -- -- and so on, that way if there isn't enough space for a complete perimeter line, the overflowing plastic should just fill up the gaps instead of building up too much pressure in the extruder.
Or maybe you could lower the extrusion feed rate for the internal filler perimeter depending on the distance, I am sure there are many ways to accomplish stronger walls
Re: Slicer behavior for thin walled sections
Does anyone know if thin wall handling in simplify3D 4.0 has changed at all? Ideally giving the user the ability to decide what to do for a thin wall (ie print it at the thinnest it can for the current nozzle diameter or some other option?)
Simplify3D is so customisable in most other areas I can't believe it possibly isn't able handle thin walls how a lot of users (and other free software) would like.
Simplify3D is so customisable in most other areas I can't believe it possibly isn't able handle thin walls how a lot of users (and other free software) would like.
Re: Slicer behavior for thin walled sections
according to release notes it changed *a lot*m1sterd wrote:Does anyone know if thin wall handling in simplify3D 4.0 has changed at all? Ideally giving the user the ability to decide what to do for a thin wall (ie print it at the thinnest it can for the current nozzle diameter or some other option?)
Simplify3D is so customisable in most other areas I can't believe it possibly isn't able handle thin walls how a lot of users (and other free software) would like.
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Re: Slicer behavior for thin walled sections
I'll be assessing things re thin walls very carefully over the next few days....and will report back on my findings.
As this long. long thread covers multiple issues, I'll raise anything I find in a new thread to avoid confusion.....
As this long. long thread covers multiple issues, I'll raise anything I find in a new thread to avoid confusion.....
Doug Kightley
Volunteer at the National Tramway Museum http://www.tramway.co.uk
Railway modeller and webmaster at http://www.talkingtgauge.net
Volunteer at the National Tramway Museum http://www.tramway.co.uk
Railway modeller and webmaster at http://www.talkingtgauge.net
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CompoundCarl
- Posts: 2005
- Joined: Wed Aug 05, 2015 7:23 am
Re: Slicer behavior for thin walled sections
So I've been testing and printing non-stop for the last 24 hours, and it seems like version 4.0 addresses pretty much every issue mentioned in this thread! Here's a quick summary of what I found
1) They now allow printing features that are smaller than the extrusion width. In the past, if you were trying to print a 0.3mm wall with a 0.4mm nozzle, it probably wouldn't work, but now you can use what they call "single extrusions" to print those thin parts. You do have to enable the feature first though by going to the Advanced tab and changing the "external thin wall type" to "allow single extrusion walls".
2) I was worried that this feature would only work if the size of the wall stayed constant, but it actually looks like the software is smart enough to taper the flow to create smaller extrusions in thin areas, or increase the flow to get thicker extrusions where needed. So if you have a wall where the thickness varied from 0.2 to 0.3 to 0.25 etc, the flow gets adjusted to try to create that exact thickness. Pretty cool!
3) There's also quite a few topics that I've seen about thin walls that had a gap between the perimeters. So if you wall was 1.0mm thick and you had a 0.4mm extrusion, then you might end up with a 0.2mm gap in the middle. Previously, you could use gap fill in most of these situations, but v4 lets you place a single extrusion in these thin gaps now. So it fills the gap in one straight pass instead of the infill style where it moves back and forth constantly. Just like #1, you have to enable this though by going to the Advanced tab and setting the "Internal thin wall type" to "allow single extrusion fill". Like before, it can also adjust if the gap varies in size.
4) There are a few options for customizing the single extrusions in the bottom left of the Advanced tab. If you're trying to print REALLY tiny parts, you might need to decrease the minimum extrusion length, since it seems that anything less than that value isn't printed. Mine defaulted to a minimum length of 1mm, and that worked fine for most of the parts I was printing. If you had a larger part and only wanted to print long single extrusions for filling in long gaps, it may make sense to increase this value so that you don't have to bother with really tiny extrusions (just focus on the big ones). So 1mm is probably fine for most, but maybe increase that value for larger parts, or decrease if you are printing really tiny < 10mm parts. The only other setting I had to play with was the endpoint extension. For one of the prints I was doing, it helped to increase this value slightly to 0.3mm. That seemed to help the ends of the single extrusions bond to the rest of the model better.
5) Finally, I found out there is also a setting that controls when perimeters are used vs single extrusions. If you are printing a real model, you're probably going to see perimeters for big features and then single extrusions for the smaller stuff. But it seems that you can actually adjust the preference by changing the "allowed perimeter overlap" setting. If you set that value to 100%, it would allow the perimeters on either side of your model to completely overlap before switching to single extrusions (so if you had a 0.4mm extrusion width, your wall would have to be less than 0.4mm wide before single extrusions). If you set it to 0%, then single extrusions get used the moment the perimeters on either side of the model touch (your wall would only have to be less than 0.8mm wide to use single extrusions). From my prints, normal perimeters tend to be a little stronger than the single extrusions, so I was keeping this allowed overlap around 30-50%. That seemed to create the strongest prints without allowing too much overlap.
That's a long summary, but I hope it's useful for someone! And thanks to the S3D team for adding the new features!!
1) They now allow printing features that are smaller than the extrusion width. In the past, if you were trying to print a 0.3mm wall with a 0.4mm nozzle, it probably wouldn't work, but now you can use what they call "single extrusions" to print those thin parts. You do have to enable the feature first though by going to the Advanced tab and changing the "external thin wall type" to "allow single extrusion walls".
2) I was worried that this feature would only work if the size of the wall stayed constant, but it actually looks like the software is smart enough to taper the flow to create smaller extrusions in thin areas, or increase the flow to get thicker extrusions where needed. So if you have a wall where the thickness varied from 0.2 to 0.3 to 0.25 etc, the flow gets adjusted to try to create that exact thickness. Pretty cool!
3) There's also quite a few topics that I've seen about thin walls that had a gap between the perimeters. So if you wall was 1.0mm thick and you had a 0.4mm extrusion, then you might end up with a 0.2mm gap in the middle. Previously, you could use gap fill in most of these situations, but v4 lets you place a single extrusion in these thin gaps now. So it fills the gap in one straight pass instead of the infill style where it moves back and forth constantly. Just like #1, you have to enable this though by going to the Advanced tab and setting the "Internal thin wall type" to "allow single extrusion fill". Like before, it can also adjust if the gap varies in size.
4) There are a few options for customizing the single extrusions in the bottom left of the Advanced tab. If you're trying to print REALLY tiny parts, you might need to decrease the minimum extrusion length, since it seems that anything less than that value isn't printed. Mine defaulted to a minimum length of 1mm, and that worked fine for most of the parts I was printing. If you had a larger part and only wanted to print long single extrusions for filling in long gaps, it may make sense to increase this value so that you don't have to bother with really tiny extrusions (just focus on the big ones). So 1mm is probably fine for most, but maybe increase that value for larger parts, or decrease if you are printing really tiny < 10mm parts. The only other setting I had to play with was the endpoint extension. For one of the prints I was doing, it helped to increase this value slightly to 0.3mm. That seemed to help the ends of the single extrusions bond to the rest of the model better.
5) Finally, I found out there is also a setting that controls when perimeters are used vs single extrusions. If you are printing a real model, you're probably going to see perimeters for big features and then single extrusions for the smaller stuff. But it seems that you can actually adjust the preference by changing the "allowed perimeter overlap" setting. If you set that value to 100%, it would allow the perimeters on either side of your model to completely overlap before switching to single extrusions (so if you had a 0.4mm extrusion width, your wall would have to be less than 0.4mm wide before single extrusions). If you set it to 0%, then single extrusions get used the moment the perimeters on either side of the model touch (your wall would only have to be less than 0.8mm wide to use single extrusions). From my prints, normal perimeters tend to be a little stronger than the single extrusions, so I was keeping this allowed overlap around 30-50%. That seemed to create the strongest prints without allowing too much overlap.
That's a long summary, but I hope it's useful for someone! And thanks to the S3D team for adding the new features!!
Re: Slicer behavior for thin walled sections
We are happy to announce that this feature has now been added in Simplify3D 4.0! To enable this option, please click "Edit Process Settings", go the Advanced tab, and change the External thin wall type to "allow single extrusion walls". This will allow the software to print thin and narrow features, even if they are smaller than the width of the nozzle. It can even adjust the flow as it is printing to create variable or tapering shapes.
We really appreciate all of the great suggestions and feedback in this thread, so we hope you will find great use for this feature in Version 4.0!
We really appreciate all of the great suggestions and feedback in this thread, so we hope you will find great use for this feature in Version 4.0!
