Hi,
I'm using Ultimaker 2 and I have faced a problem with Simplified 3D when I try to make thin walls. Regardless the different settings I have used, a wall of 1 mm becomes 2 walls with a space in the middle. The space is visible at the final part. No cover at the top layers.
Attached: Pic of the part and settings.
Grateful for any idea how to overcome the problem.
Tord
Ultimaker 2 Problem with thin walls
- Attachments
-
- Test.fff
- (6.92 KiB) Downloaded 495 times
-
Re: Ultimaker 2 Problem with thin walls
This is a common problem and is caused by having a wall that is thinner than 3X perimeter width. Walls thinner than 3X the width of the extruded filament cannot be printed the correct size unless they are an exact multiple of the extrusion width. If you think about it you will see why - if my wall is (say) 1.2mm thick and my extrusion width is 0.5mm, the two perimeters will take up 1.0mm leaving a gap of 0.2mm which is too narrow to fill with a 0.5mm extrusion. Any thickness above 1.5mm can be made with 2 perimeters and an infill pattern and so don't need to be an exact multiple. To fix the issue, either change the design so that the wall is a multiple of your extrusion width, or manually set the extrusion width to be an exact factor of the wall thickness (but don't make it much greater than your nozzle diameter).
Re: Ultimaker 2 Problem with thin walls
I had the same Problem on the thingiverse T4 Mini Quadcopter arm (the round Motor holder).
Nozzle Diameter is 0,4mm
Set the Extrusion width to >0,39mm resulted to print the round walls with 2 Perimeters and a gap in between.
Setting it 0.39mm gave me the right 3 Perimeters and no gap...
Of course you can check about the tight setting via the preview prior printing....
Br,
Matthias
Nozzle Diameter is 0,4mm
Set the Extrusion width to >0,39mm resulted to print the round walls with 2 Perimeters and a gap in between.
Setting it 0.39mm gave me the right 3 Perimeters and no gap...
Of course you can check about the tight setting via the preview prior printing....
Br,
Matthias
Re: Ultimaker 2 Problem with thin walls
Thanks,
I have tried following your advices and sometimes it works. Anyhow I feel the software instable in situations like this. If I'm using the program enclosed with my machine (Cura), it works without any problem. It’s a pity because Simplified 3D has a lot of useful facilities that are missing in Cura.
I think I will forward this issue to the support.
Best regards
Tord
I have tried following your advices and sometimes it works. Anyhow I feel the software instable in situations like this. If I'm using the program enclosed with my machine (Cura), it works without any problem. It’s a pity because Simplified 3D has a lot of useful facilities that are missing in Cura.
I think I will forward this issue to the support.
Best regards
Tord
Re: Ultimaker 2 Problem with thin walls
This has nothing to do with s3d or any slicer you are using. Its plain simple math. If your final gap is too small to fit an extrusion it then it wont put one. Every slicer will work like that. A little added note, its not 3x. In your picture its 4 times. s3d will not put a single extrusion. In your pic those are perimeters. They are always done in a multiple of 2. One for inner and outer wall. You either raise the extrusion width or lower it to be sure the wall is filled correctly. It is shown plain as day in the preview. If you have small objects in your model the best way really is to use 1 perimeter and then the gap will be filled with infill and capped in the end
-
Nicksdesign
- Posts: 4
- Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2014 9:23 pm
Re: Ultimaker 2 Problem with thin walls
While this behavior is common with slicers, requiring the part design to be changed to fit the extruded filament size, or playing around with the width of the extruded filament is not a very good solution. For what it's worth, Slic3r has a setting which can be used to fill in this gap (Infill/Solid infill threshold area).
Sometimes the part needs the strength of multiple perimeters is some regions while also needing SOLID thin cross sections in other regions without having to pay the price of excess weight of 100% infill in the entire part. One should be able to design a part to the requirements of the part and the software and printer should be able to make it. Adjusting the design of a part to fit the software is just backwards!
This is something the slicing software should be able to handle. If Simplify3D could handle it, I'd buy it in a flash! If a free slicer can handle it, a program costing $140 should too!
Nick
Sometimes the part needs the strength of multiple perimeters is some regions while also needing SOLID thin cross sections in other regions without having to pay the price of excess weight of 100% infill in the entire part. One should be able to design a part to the requirements of the part and the software and printer should be able to make it. Adjusting the design of a part to fit the software is just backwards!
This is something the slicing software should be able to handle. If Simplify3D could handle it, I'd buy it in a flash! If a free slicer can handle it, a program costing $140 should too!
Nick
Re: Ultimaker 2 Problem with thin walls
nick, its not the slicer. a nozzle of a specific size can squeeze out filament only so small. if you try to put an extrusion where it doesnt fit, as it goes through the layers you start to have parts that are out of spec because they start bulging outward. now on the other hand perhaps a slicer could be made to recognize this gap and perhaps increase the width to make you outer walls bigger to help fill that gap.
-
Nicksdesign
- Posts: 4
- Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2014 9:23 pm
Re: Ultimaker 2 Problem with thin walls
There likely is a physical limit to the small size of voids that can be filled, but I haven't yet experienced this limit. That is not the issue. If one looks at the photo in the first post, one can see that the void/gap is not that small.
Consider the parts in the attached photo. This object was specifically designed with 1mm thick walls to test the ability to print them solid. These are two prints of the same object on my Makerbot 2X using the MB slicer. The one on the left was printed with three perimeters. The printer, per the slicer, made a single perimeter pass on the outside walls of the object. Because the gap between the two perimeter passes is less than the width of the extruded fiber (as configured in the slicer settings), there was not enough space for a full width pass and the slicer left the gap unfiled. The print on the right was printed with a single perimeter and 100% infill. In this print, the printer made the same single perimeter pass on the outside walls of the object. Then the slicer commanded the printer to come back and fill in the gap resulting in a solid 1mm wide wall in the print. This shows quite clearly that there is no physical limitation of the printer's ability to fill in the gap in this kind of situation.
As I noted in my earlier post, Slic3r has a setting that can be used to fill in these gaps. In over a year of using Slic3r, I've yet to encounter a gap so thin Slic3r couldn't fill it in. I can print this same part on my Solidoodle 2 using Slic3r and the 1mm walls print solid regardless of the number of perimeters selected. Thus, I conclude that Simplify3D could also be enhanced with a function to fill gaps also: perhaps something like 'fill all gaps less than Xmm'.
If Simplify3D had this ability, I would buy it in a flash. (I may buy it anyway.)
Nick
Consider the parts in the attached photo. This object was specifically designed with 1mm thick walls to test the ability to print them solid. These are two prints of the same object on my Makerbot 2X using the MB slicer. The one on the left was printed with three perimeters. The printer, per the slicer, made a single perimeter pass on the outside walls of the object. Because the gap between the two perimeter passes is less than the width of the extruded fiber (as configured in the slicer settings), there was not enough space for a full width pass and the slicer left the gap unfiled. The print on the right was printed with a single perimeter and 100% infill. In this print, the printer made the same single perimeter pass on the outside walls of the object. Then the slicer commanded the printer to come back and fill in the gap resulting in a solid 1mm wide wall in the print. This shows quite clearly that there is no physical limitation of the printer's ability to fill in the gap in this kind of situation.
As I noted in my earlier post, Slic3r has a setting that can be used to fill in these gaps. In over a year of using Slic3r, I've yet to encounter a gap so thin Slic3r couldn't fill it in. I can print this same part on my Solidoodle 2 using Slic3r and the 1mm walls print solid regardless of the number of perimeters selected. Thus, I conclude that Simplify3D could also be enhanced with a function to fill gaps also: perhaps something like 'fill all gaps less than Xmm'.
If Simplify3D had this ability, I would buy it in a flash. (I may buy it anyway.)
Nick
- Attachments
-
- Test part for thin wall prints
Re: Ultimaker 2 Problem with thin walls
i also encountered this issue and would like to see it fixed
-
ReneeCelDesigns
- Posts: 23
- Joined: Tue Jul 15, 2014 10:34 am
Re: Ultimaker 2 Problem with thin walls
I also have this problem and have noticed that this problem dosnt occur as frequently on other software. PLEASE FIX.
As well as the infill pattern, as it is not strong and needs to be matched to that of other free software out there that has strong infill.
Finally outlines of holes/perimeters...
Take a lolly pop slick with 2 holes in each end, using a 2 layer perimeter, at current the software will outline the lolly then the holes and come back to do the 2 perimeter. This leads to large travel between the 2 holes and means that the print head becomes un-primed thus creating 2 patchy holes. If both perimeters had been done at the same time, i.e. the lolly inside and outside perimeter and then the holes, the print head is primed by the first perimeter leaving a lovely outer hole finish.
My last point this the biggest problem I can see but all the above issues really need to be fixed urgently because the software is very good apart from that.
Cheers
Lukas
As well as the infill pattern, as it is not strong and needs to be matched to that of other free software out there that has strong infill.
Finally outlines of holes/perimeters...
Take a lolly pop slick with 2 holes in each end, using a 2 layer perimeter, at current the software will outline the lolly then the holes and come back to do the 2 perimeter. This leads to large travel between the 2 holes and means that the print head becomes un-primed thus creating 2 patchy holes. If both perimeters had been done at the same time, i.e. the lolly inside and outside perimeter and then the holes, the print head is primed by the first perimeter leaving a lovely outer hole finish.
My last point this the biggest problem I can see but all the above issues really need to be fixed urgently because the software is very good apart from that.
Cheers
Lukas
