KOPrinting
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2022 3:42 pm

Smooth Transition between Vase mode and Non vase mode Print

Hello,

I'm using a 2.5 mm nozzle printing at 4mm extrusion width and 1 mm layer height. I have a model that is cylindrical initially but then transitions into an open shape.
vase-non-vase.jpg
I'm printing it with two processes. The initial process is a vase mode. When the cylinder portion ends, I have a new non vase mode process; however, even though the Wall thickness in the model is uniform and the extrusion width and layer heights are the same in the two processes. I get a ridge when it transitions from process 1 to process 2. Also, the layers in the second process (non vasemode) end up being no where near as smooth as the vase mode section.
vase-non-vase1.jpg
I was hoping some one here had experimented with multiple processes in prints where it started in vase mode and transitioned into non vase mode prints with a smooth transition in the physical print.
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Vase-non-vase.stl
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airscapes
Posts: 392
Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2018 10:35 am
Location: Philadelphia PA Area

Re: Smooth Transition between Vase mode and Non vase mode Print

As has been posted many time and is documented, Vase mode requires a solid model.. This means no open center.
zemlin
Posts: 379
Joined: Mon Feb 01, 2016 11:36 am

Re: Smooth Transition between Vase mode and Non vase mode Print

As mentioned above, this model is not appropriate for vase mode printing. It looks like the wall thickness is about 4mm, so if you are, in fact, printing with a 4mm extrusion width the entire build will be single-extrusion walls. It looks like you're using random start points. You'd probably be better off going for maximum efficiency so it will start each wall at the opening and print one path to the other side. I'd probably not force a retract between layers as well if it is going to just lift and start printing again, retraction might not be needed.

With that nozzle size and layer thickness I was expecting this to be a monster part. It's not very big to be using a build that chunky.
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dkightley
Posts: 2403
Joined: Tue Mar 10, 2015 4:09 pm

Re: Smooth Transition between Vase mode and Non vase mode Print

I'd probably not force a retract between layers as well if it is going to just lift and start printing again, retraction might not be needed.
Not someone else not sure what "vase mode" is!

Vase mode prints a single long spiral extrusion going round and round the perimeter of the model. There's no "lift and start printing again"

To clearly illustrate what I mean...an ice cream like this would be served in "vase mode" extrusion...."one single extrusion round and round the perimeter".
Capture.JPG
Doug Kightley
Volunteer at the National Tramway Museum http://www.tramway.co.uk
Railway modeller and webmaster at http://www.talkingtgauge.net
zemlin
Posts: 379
Joined: Mon Feb 01, 2016 11:36 am

Re: Smooth Transition between Vase mode and Non vase mode Print

dkightley wrote: Sun Mar 27, 2022 8:30 pm Not someone else not sure what "vase mode" is!
Please note the first thing I said in my post:
zemlin wrote: Sun Mar 27, 2022 10:36 am As mentioned above, this model is not appropriate for vase mode printing.
KOPrinting
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2022 3:42 pm

Re: Smooth Transition between Vase mode and Non vase mode Print

Thank you all for your replies.

As I mentioned in my initial post, only the first process is in Vase mode (the part of the model that has no open center...like the icecream cone), i.e. the blue process.


The issue I am having is when I go to the SECOND process that is non vase mode because of the open portion of the model. The first layer of this non vase mode print comes out a little staggered causing a ridge in the print.
parallyze
Posts: 275
Joined: Fri Jun 05, 2015 4:18 am

Re: Smooth Transition between Vase mode and Non vase mode Print

Hi,
KOPrinting wrote: Tue Mar 22, 2022 3:53 pm I was hoping some one here had experimented with multiple processes in prints where it started in vase mode and transitioned into non vase mode prints with a smooth transition in the physical print.
I've been mixing vase mode/non vase mode prints like that very often, I didn't encounter real problems with ridges or artifacts
at the transitions. One thing coming to mind would be something I've seen people doing in the past...

Are you slicing selecting both processes or are you slicing each process to a seperate output file? People have been doing this
instead of inserting a pause command to swap filament and other things... the problem is: If only process #2 is sliced it may
not start at exactly the z height you're expecting. This depends on start/stop height, layer height and might also be affected by
the first layer height from the previous process.

Or maybe you're using S3D v4.1.1 instead of v4.1.2 for some reason? One of the bugs fixed was vase mode not reducing the
amount of material on the last loop, which resulted in overextrusion on the last layer of vase mode prints...

As others have noted the shown object can't be printed in vase mode completely - but as far as I can tell that's not what
you're trying to do and if printing the bottom part in vase mode and how it connects to the later parts does work for you, why not...? ^^

There's even a tutorial showing those modes mixed - unless I'm wrong and "helical printing mode" means something else
than "vase mode": https://www.simplify3d.com/support/arti ... f-a-model/
(#3 in the picture)

In the end S3D is doing the same on the bottom solid layers in vase mode - perimeters aren't printed in vase mode there either, they're
printed at the same fixed height as the solid infill.
KOPrinting
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2022 3:42 pm

Re: Smooth Transition between Vase mode and Non vase mode Print

parallyze wrote: Mon Mar 28, 2022 9:07 am
I've been mixing vase mode/non vase mode prints like that very often, I didn't encounter real problems with ridges or artifacts
at the transitions. One thing coming to mind would be something I've seen people doing in the past...

Are you slicing selecting both processes or are you slicing each process to a seperate output file? People have been doing this
instead of inserting a pause command to swap filament and other things... the problem is: If only process #2 is sliced it may
not start at exactly the z height you're expecting. This depends on start/stop height, layer height and might also be affected by
the first layer height from the previous process.
Thank you for the break down. I am slicing both processes to a single file. However, your point is valid. I was not paying attention to the first layer settings in the second process. I'll see if I can tweak those settings on my end. I am using 4.1.2.

What Start point settings do you usually use for the non-vase mode section of your prints?

Someone earlier had asked about the using the wall width/nozzle size for a model this size. This is a for a prosthetic diagnostic fitting.
airscapes
Posts: 392
Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2018 10:35 am
Location: Philadelphia PA Area

Re: Smooth Transition between Vase mode and Non vase mode Print

I mix the 2 modes in one model but the model is 100% sold where vase used and not where normal mode is.
See attached flower pot.
PETG Flower Pot V41 2walls at the bottom .factory
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alexis92
Posts: 25
Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2022 7:53 pm

Re: Smooth Transition between Vase mode and Non vase mode Print

Interesting thread, I'd love to see how your project turned out if it was in fact a vase you were working on

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