RetroDesign3D
Posts: 39
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2018 6:55 pm

[ADDED] Top layer feature type.

We have solid infill, but nothing for TOP LAYER. I would very much like this basic feature that is in each and every other other slicer. I have 5 solid layers.. but only the very top needs to slow down to 30% otherwise my prints take FOREVER when they dont need to.

SOLVED
in so much as I can reduce my top layers to 1, and then use 4 dense layers instead.. making my desired 5 top layers in total essentially.
Giving me max speed on the 4 dense layers (99% infill) and then 1 very slow top layer for surface quality. Getting both strength and beauty.

I would still like to see more control over dense layers with [ Speed, Infill Pattern, extrusion width & multiplier ] specific to infill density.
Last edited by RetroDesign3D on Fri Feb 03, 2023 10:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
RetroDesign3D
Posts: 39
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2018 6:55 pm

Re: TOP LAYER feature type.

Wait.. why doesnt the following dramatically reduce print time. Method A. should be MUCH slower then Method .B .. but its not.

Method A.
60mm sec general print time.
Top layers at 70% speed
5 top layers
Zero Dense layers

Method B.
60mm sec general print time
Top layer at 70% speed
1 top layers
4 dense layers at 90%

on a pretty large model with many top surfaces.. the print time only changes from
Method. A : 17hrs and 12 min
Method B: 17 hrs and 1 minute

I would have expected a very large decrease in time.. what gives ?
DrD
Posts: 74
Joined: Sun Dec 25, 2022 8:24 pm
Location: Canada

Re: TOP LAYER feature type.

RetroDesign3D wrote: Thu Feb 02, 2023 10:40 pm Wait.. why doesnt the following dramatically reduce print time. Method A. should be MUCH slower then Method .B .. but its not.

Method A.
60mm sec general print time.
Top layers at 70% speed
5 top layers
Zero Dense layers

Method B.
60mm sec general print time
Top layer at 70% speed
1 top layers
4 dense layers at 90%

on a pretty large model with many top surfaces.. the print time only changes from
Method. A : 17hrs and 12 min
Method B: 17 hrs and 1 minute

I would have expected a very large decrease in time.. what gives ?

Any chance that you can share your .factory file? That'd be useful for digging deeper into your settings. Thanks!
You don't know what you don't know until you know (my philosophy for continued learning).
RetroDesign3D
Posts: 39
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2018 6:55 pm

Re: TOP LAYER feature type.

What speed does Dense infill print at. There is no option for adjusting this feature types speed in the speed tab. I would think if somthing is not addressable in the speed tab that it would print at the "default printing speed" but this isnt happening. Should this be moved to BUG section or am I missing something?

and yes I can share the factory file . just a minute on that.
RetroDesign3D
Posts: 39
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2018 6:55 pm

Re: TOP LAYER feature type.

file attached.
However when viewing the preview with the movement speed as the color display it does show the dense layers moving at the default print speed. I guess it must be my speed estimation settings that are not working correctly I will do a few large test prints to get the real time on them.
Attachments
toplayer_speedtests.factory
(5.36 KiB) Downloaded 35 times
DrD
Posts: 74
Joined: Sun Dec 25, 2022 8:24 pm
Location: Canada

Re: TOP LAYER feature type.

RetroDesign3D wrote: Fri Feb 03, 2023 2:35 am file attached.
However when viewing the preview with the movement speed as the color display it does show the dense layers moving at the default
print speed. I guess it must be my speed estimation settings that are not working correctly I will do a few large test prints to get the real time
on them.
Thanks for providing the .factory file. I've had a look at it and made some "tweaks"... I just put a model on the print bed and scaled it up
200% for my experiments.

Using the slicer settings as provided in the .factory file, print time for my model was: 4hrs, 45mins whereas
after making some adjustments, I'd managed to reduce the print time to 3hrs, 27mins. The TL;DR out of
all of this is that your infill & retraction settings play a HUGE role with respect to print times.

Here's a list of the changes that I'd made along the way...

Speeds Tab:
  • Changed inner perimeter speed to 85%
  • Changed XY travel speed from 80mm/sec to 100mm/sec
Speed Overrides Section:
  • Unchecked "Reduce print speed for excessively quick layers" <-- this factor affects print times when enabled for small models
  • Unchecked "Reduce print speeds for short perimeters" <-- this factor also affects print time when enabled for small models
Infill Tab:
  • Changed "Dense infill percentage" from 99% to 80% (99% seemed excessive, top layer will still be smooth @ 80% dense infill)
  • Changed infill from 15% to 5% <-- This is where the bulk of the print time savings come from!!!
Other Tab:
  • Unchecked "Perform Tool Change Retractions"
Advanced Tab:
  • Unchecked "Only retract when crossing open spaces"
  • Unchecked "Force retraction between layers"
  • Checked "Require minimum extrusion for retraction", set value to 3.00mm

Hopefully this might give you some insight for getting the print times down for your model(s).

D.
Attachments
toplayer_speedtests.factory
(1.38 MiB) Downloaded 34 times
You don't know what you don't know until you know (my philosophy for continued learning).
RetroDesign3D
Posts: 39
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2018 6:55 pm

Re: TOP LAYER feature type.

I appreciate your tips, unfortunately I am pretty informed on all of that , these tests are/were purely testing dense layer infill speeds.
I have concluded they do improve speed over using multiple top layers IF you slow your top layers for surface quality purposes..
I wish we had more control over dense layers such as infill pattern,speed, extrusion multiplier and width (specific to dense layers),

my issues was that the new speed calculating settings were not correct.. I have matched these to my machine and am seeing better results.

Thank you.
DrD
Posts: 74
Joined: Sun Dec 25, 2022 8:24 pm
Location: Canada

Re: TOP LAYER feature type.

RetroDesign3D wrote: Fri Feb 03, 2023 10:20 am I appreciate your tips, unfortunately I am pretty informed on all of that , these tests are/were purely testing dense layer infill speeds.
I have concluded they do improve speed over using multiple top layers IF you slow your top layers for surface quality purposes..
I wish we had more control over dense layers such as infill pattern,speed, extrusion multiplier and width (specific to dense layers),

my issues was that the new speed calculating settings were not correct.. I have matched these to my machine and am seeing better results.

Thank you.
Yeah, I hear ya with regards to the Dense Infill speeds... would be nice to have more control over that, for sure. Out of curiosity, have you
tried creating a separate process simply for the Dense Infill and top layer??? That might be something to look into... (I might even play
around with that to see what can be done with it).

I'm going to follow this thread to see where it leads (if anywhere). If I do come across anything "interesting", I'll be sure to share. :D

Might even be a good move to PM @S3D-Jason & @S3D-Alex as to bring more attention to this thread...
You don't know what you don't know until you know (my philosophy for continued learning).
DrD
Posts: 74
Joined: Sun Dec 25, 2022 8:24 pm
Location: Canada

Re: TOP LAYER feature type.[SOLVED, KINDA]

So, I went down the "rabbit hole" and used the same file that I'd previously posted (based on your settings & such) and modified it to have multiple processes.

I managed to get the print time down from 3hrs, 27mins to 2hrs, 39mins by using variable layer heights on the "base" of the model
up to the point where the Dense Infill would start (not sure if your model is suitable for variable layer heights or not... but that's the
other major factor that's obviously reduced the overall print time).

Attached is the newly modified .factory file so that you can see how I managed to get "some" control over the Dense Infill print speeds.

All-in-all, the method used is a crude and tedious way to potentially go about controlling Dense Infill speeds...

Have a look and let me know what you think.

D.
Attachments
toplayer_speedtests (multi-process).factory
(1.39 MiB) Downloaded 33 times
You don't know what you don't know until you know (my philosophy for continued learning).
RetroDesign3D
Posts: 39
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2018 6:55 pm

Re: TOP LAYER feature type.[SOLVED, KINDA]

Ill take a look. thanks.
Most of my models are terrain and infrastructure, Land with both rolling countrysides and flat tiered cityscapes, small buildings with flat tops and valleys for water, rivers and so forth.. Many top surfaces

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