VitHudecek
Posts: 23
Joined: Thu Oct 29, 2020 8:24 am

Layer to nowhere

This is definitelly not how the slicer should work. I have still the same problem everytime and this should not be the behavior of slicer. If i have infill and next layer is coming it should make a full layer, not stopping in the air.
Image
Image
It just f.cked up 20 hour print so thank you
parallyze
Posts: 349
Joined: Fri Jun 05, 2015 4:18 am

Re: Layer to nowhere

VitHudecek wrote: Fri Dec 08, 2023 3:02 am This is definitelly not how the slicer should work. I have still the same problem everytime and this should not be the behavior of slicer. If i have infill and next layer is coming it should make a full layer, not stopping in the air.
It's impossible to say how that layer should look without knowing what the rest of the object is supposed to look like.

Example like yours:
inf1.JPG
inf2.JPG

And that's perfectly fine here. Because that area isn't as high as the surrounding ones later on:
inf3.JPG
It just f.cked up 20 hour print so thank you
So this did not show up in the preview until after starting the print?
VitHudecek
Posts: 23
Joined: Thu Oct 29, 2020 8:24 am

Re: Layer to nowhere

I am not sure if you understand that situation correctly. The first layer on the infill is printing without start and finish point on the infill so it starts and finishes in the air so it just stays on the nozzle and you "pull it with it back".
parallyze
Posts: 349
Joined: Fri Jun 05, 2015 4:18 am

Re: Layer to nowhere

VitHudecek wrote: Fri Dec 08, 2023 7:17 pm I am not sure if you understand that situation correctly. The first layer on the infill is printing without start and finish point on the infill so it starts and finishes in the air so it just stays on the nozzle and you "pull it with it back".
Then maybe you can clarify a few things, so people can understand what your post is actually about, especially in combination with
If i have infill and next layer is coming it should make a full layer
Nobody can tell by the pictures provided how the object is supposed to look like after layer 306. So why do you want it to
"should make a full layer", is there actually a flat surface coming or is there an indent like in my example?

And why aren't the start/end points circled in red, what are those areas supposed to tell if it's about start/end points?

Start/endpoints (yellow) should all be anchored on the outer perimeters or the additional "frame" generated by the infill, depending
on infill overlap settings. Cura for example would require skin count > 0 to create this inside the infill.
inf5.JPG
If you are worried about the red circled parts (which are continuous extrusions, not start/end points), that's a result of the selected
infill pattern, percentage and infill angle. Looking at the picture the easiest answer to this would be:

You're printing using a too low infill percentage, not providing enough support for solid areas.

Do you happen to know of a single slicer out there that does automatically adjust infill to support solid layers from edge to edge(!)
everywhere? Would be interesting to see, I didn't come across one yet...

Edit:
Answering my own question here, PrusaSlicer has introduced something like that in 2.6 ("Extending Sparse Infill"), adjusting the
shape of the first solid infill layer to make it adhere better to the infill...
Last edited by parallyze on Fri Dec 08, 2023 9:17 pm, edited 2 times in total.
parallyze
Posts: 349
Joined: Fri Jun 05, 2015 4:18 am

Re: Layer to nowhere

Not running S3Dv5, therefore no Gyroid infill. Here's screens from PrusaSlicer:

If what you're worried about is indeed the red circled areas in your picture and not the start/finish points, this is what the
problem looks like from below in PS:
inf4b.JPG
If you don't want parts of the infill to hang mid air, adjust infill percentage, alignment and/or pattern to minimize those areas:
inf4c.JPG
Or use the solid diaphragm option to create solid layers exactly where you like them. Or different processes.

Additionally setting up bridging parameters for those areas might also improve results.

Edit:
Updated PS, the "Extend Sparse Infill" feature seems much more sensible in these cases than whole solid layers...
inf4d.JPG
VitHudecek
Posts: 23
Joined: Thu Oct 29, 2020 8:24 am

Re: Layer to nowhere

parallyze wrote: Fri Dec 08, 2023 8:46 pm Edit:
Updated PS, the "Extend Sparse Infill" feature seems much more sensible in these cases than whole solid layers...

inf4d.JPG
This!!! This is it! This is how it should be. That layer just can not be in the air on the erge. It should be connected to infill wall so it sticks on the place. So Simplify3D is waste of my money once again :|
VitHudecek
Posts: 23
Joined: Thu Oct 29, 2020 8:24 am

Re: Layer to nowhere

parallyze wrote: Fri Dec 08, 2023 8:02 pm
VitHudecek wrote: Fri Dec 08, 2023 7:17 pm I am not sure if you understand that situation correctly. The first layer on the infill is printing without start and finish point on the infill so it starts and finishes in the air so it just stays on the nozzle and you "pull it with it back".
Then maybe you can clarify a few things, so people can understand what your post is actually about, especially in combination with
If i have infill and next layer is coming it should make a full layer
Nobody can tell by the pictures provided how the object is supposed to look like after layer 306. So why do you want it to
"should make a full layer", is there actually a flat surface coming or is there an indent like in my example?

And why aren't the start/end points circled in red, what are those areas supposed to tell if it's about start/end points?

Start/endpoints (yellow) should all be anchored on the outer perimeters or the additional "frame" generated by the infill, depending
on infill overlap settings. Cura for example would require skin count > 0 to create this inside the infill.

inf5.JPG

If you are worried about the red circled parts (which are continuous extrusions, not start/end points), that's a result of the selected
infill pattern, percentage and infill angle. Looking at the picture the easiest answer to this would be:

You're printing using a too low infill percentage, not providing enough support for solid areas.

Do you happen to know of a single slicer out there that does automatically adjust infill to support solid layers from edge to edge(!)
everywhere? Would be interesting to see, I didn't come across one yet...

Edit:
Answering my own question here, PrusaSlicer has introduced something like that in 2.6 ("Extending Sparse Infill"), adjusting the
shape of the first solid infill layer to make it adhere better to the infill...

Sorry, but i really do not know how to tell in other way. I think that this is more clear than it could be. It doesnt matter what layers are above those i am dealing with and if you think that it is important, you do not understand the problem.
Image Image
parallyze
Posts: 349
Joined: Fri Jun 05, 2015 4:18 am

Re: Layer to nowhere

VitHudecek wrote: Sat Dec 09, 2023 6:57 am It doesnt matter what layers are above
It does. And it's not hard to understand.

What IS hard to understand is you mixing up "should make full layers", marking internal overhangs on continuous extrusions in
red but then claiming to talk about start/finish points of extrusions.

Then you claim the "Extending Sparse Infill" is exactly what you want - just to call for solid layers again.

This is why following layers ARE important to judge the current layer:
001.JPG
Note the indent on the left object.

002.JPG
The area under the indent is lower, therefore solid infill has to start earlier to stay within the configured amount
of solid top layers.

And asking for a feature like "Extending Sparse Infill" is different from "should make full layer". Because if that was done
above example would end up with 6 top layers around the indent instead of the configured 5.

Maybe you should try to tell what it actually is you are looking for.

- Extending the first layer of solid infill on sparse infill
- Automatically adjusting the infill structure to provide better support
- Add full solid layers whenever a part of a solid infill starts, no matter the size of it

All of this would help in these cases - still it's three VERY different approaches.

This category is called "Troubleshooting and Bug Reports". What you're referring to doesn't look like a bug - it's behavior
most slicers offered for many, many years - with PS2.6 introducing a possible improvement. And that version (not beta/alpha)
hasn't been available for even 6 months yet.

Up until then it's always been part of the slicing to check for proper internal supports. Because if you don't provide infill
settings for sufficient internal support you end up with massive internal overhangs. No matter if PS, Cura, S3D...
inf4.JPG
Troubleshooting:
Adjust your infill while slicing to properly support the top structures of your object, avoid massive internal overhangs

Bug:
I don't see a bug here

Feature Request:
Wrong category
VitHudecek
Posts: 23
Joined: Thu Oct 29, 2020 8:24 am

Re: Layer to nowhere

parallyze wrote: Sat Dec 09, 2023 9:32 am
VitHudecek wrote: Sat Dec 09, 2023 6:57 am It doesnt matter what layers are above
It does. And it's not hard to understand.

What IS hard to understand is you mixing up "should make full layers", marking internal overhangs on continuous extrusions in
red but then claiming to talk about start/finish points of extrusions.

Then you claim the "Extending Sparse Infill" is exactly what you want - just to call for solid layers again.

This is why following layers ARE important to judge the current layer:

001.JPG

Note the indent on the left object.


002.JPG

The area under the indent is lower, therefore solid infill has to start earlier to stay within the configured amount
of solid top layers.

And asking for a feature like "Extending Sparse Infill" is different from "should make full layer". Because if that was done
above example would end up with 6 top layers around the indent instead of the configured 5.

Maybe you should try to tell what it actually is you are looking for.

- Extending the first layer of solid infill on sparse infill
- Automatically adjusting the infill structure to provide better support
- Add full solid layers whenever a part of a solid infill starts, no matter the size of it

All of this would help in these cases - still it's three VERY different approaches.

This category is called "Troubleshooting and Bug Reports". What you're referring to doesn't look like a bug - it's behavior
most slicers offered for many, many years - with PS2.6 introducing a possible improvement. And that version (not beta/alpha)
hasn't been available for even 6 months yet.

Up until then it's always been part of the slicing to check for proper internal supports. Because if you don't provide infill
settings for sufficient internal support you end up with massive internal overhangs. No matter if PS, Cura, S3D...

inf4.JPG

Troubleshooting:
Adjust your infill while slicing to properly support the top structures of your object, avoid massive internal overhangs

Bug:
I don't see a bug here

Feature Request:
Wrong category
This really says it all. download/file.php?id=12253&sid=4cc8ff29 ... &mode=view
ampster
Posts: 23
Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2023 10:26 pm

Re: Layer to nowhere

1st post, no need to post such language.

Drop the attitude/hormones whatever it is.

Post the file you are having problems with instead of slinging words back and forth slamming each other.

Last pic of something done in prusa, looks like alot of squiggly lines. That tells alot.

Again, drop the attitude and come here asking question on how to improve something/whatever. Waste of our time to sit and read you go off the handle about stuff.

If you want help, come here acting like you would while you are talking to someone face to face. What you want to deal with peeps who come off like this? I would not.

edit, going by first post alone, no mention of anything you tried. Last I heard ya still should go thru slice by slice and examine before printing. If it is not suitable, adjust scale of infill, adjust rotation of infill.

If anything start off your post with what you've tried. The net is a big place, go vent elsewhere then come back and act nice.
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