Simplify3D User Forum

Posted: **Sun Apr 17, 2016 7:53 pm**

I'm currrently building a dual head printer that prints with one fine 0.35mm nozzle (E3Dv6) and one coarse 1mm nozzle (E3D Volcano) using 3mm filament.
I would like to switch fo 1.75mm filament diameter for the fine nozzle extruder but at the moment it seems impossible to do that in Simplify3D as the filament diameter is a signle global setting and extruded volume would be always wrong for one of the extruders.
Can you make the filament diameter a per-extruder/toolhead configuration so that I can set up the printer correctly?

Posted: **Mon Apr 18, 2016 6:12 am**

In case you are interested, there is already a way to do this right now using the extrusion multipliers: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=3718&p=16304#p16283

Changing the filament diameter and the extrusion multiplier both have the same affect, so you can make the adjustment with either one.

Posted: **Mon Apr 18, 2016 12:29 pm**

That's a good workaround but not ideal.
3mm filament with a multiplier of .5833333 would give 1.75mm equivalent.

Even with both of my extruders using 1.75mm filaments the diameter is such an important calibration step that it would be nice to call it out explicitly.

Additionally, it should be stored with the machine and material profiles. Currently, when I change from PLA to NinjaFlex, for example, I have to reset diameter and all print speeds. All those properties should be split between extruders and filament types.

Posted: **Mon Apr 18, 2016 5:19 pm**

Cool idea with the extrusion multiplier, that means I can begin experimenting at the cost of doing some math.
Question is, does it screw up the total volume and price calculations? Or the graphical preview?

From a practical perspective, extrusion multiplier is nothing but fudge factor cheat for fixing misconfigured esteps and filament diameter. Does it have any legitimate use besides that? And I hate doing math when setting up filament

Filament diameter on the other hand is a core parameter and needs to be fine tuned to specific filament at hand (some are 2.85, some are 2.95..).
I would prefer to have filament diameter in place of extrusion multiplier instead of fudge factors.

Posted: **Mon Apr 18, 2016 7:09 pm**

Here is a table showing extrusion multipliers and their quantization errors:

Code: Select all

      +--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+
      |  3,00  |  2,95  |  2,90  |  2,85  |  2,80  |  2,75  |  2,70  |  1,90  |  1,85  |  1,80  |  1,75  |  1,70  |  1,65  |  1,60  |
+-----+========+========+========+========+========+========+========+========+========+========+========+========+========+========+
|3,00 #  1,00  |  0,97  |  0,93  |  0,90  |  0,87  |  0,84  |  0,81  |  0,40  |  0,38  |  0,36  |  0,34  |  0,32  |  0,30  |  0,28  |
|     #        |(-0,31%)|(+0,44%)|(+0,25%)|(+0,11%)|(+0,03%)|        |(+0,11%)|(+0,03%)|        |(+0,03%)|(+0,11%)|(+0,25%)|(+0,44%)|
+-----#--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+
|2,95 #  1,03  |  1,00  |  0,97  |  0,93  |  0,90  |  0,87  |  0,84  |  0,41  |  0,39  |  0,37  |  0,35  |  0,33  |  0,31  |  0,29  |
|     #(+0,42%)|        |(-0,36%)|(+0,34%)|(+0,09%)|(-0,10%)|(-0,23%)|(+0,48%)|(+0,33%)|(+0,23%)|(+0,19%)|(+0,21%)|(+0,28%)|(+0,42%)|
+-----#--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+--------
|2,90 #  1,07  |  1,03  |  1,00  |  0,97  |  0,93  |  0,90  |  0,87  |  0,43  |  0,41  |  0,39  |  0,36  |  0,34  |  0,32  |  0,30  |
|     #(+0,02%)|(+0,48%)|        |(-0,42%)|(+0,22%)|(-0,08%)|(-0,32%)|(-0,07%)|(-0,30%)|(-0,47%)|(+0,41%)|(+0,36%)|(+0,37%)|(+0,44%)|
+-----#--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+
|2,85 #  1,11  |  1,07  |  1,04  |  1,00  |  0,97  |  0,93  |  0,90  |  0,44  |  0,42  |  0,40  |  0,38  |  0,36  |  0,34  |  0,32  |
|     #(-0,20%)|(+0,14%)|(-0,46%)|        |(-0,48%)|(+0,11%)|(-0,25%)|(+0,44%)|(+0,14%)|(-0,11%)|(-0,30%)|(-0,42%)|(-0,48%)|(-0,48%)|
+-----#--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+
|2,80 #  1,15  |  1,11  |  1,07  |  1,04  |  1,00  |  0,96  |  0,93  |  0,46  |  0,44  |  0,41  |  0,39  |  0,37  |  0,35  |  0,33  |
|     #(-0,20%)|(+0,00%)|(+0,27%)|(-0,40%)|        |(+0,46%)|(-0,02%)|(+0,05%)|(-0,35%)|(+0,33%)|(+0,06%)|(-0,14%)|(-0,27%)|(-0,35%)|
+-----#--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+
|2,75 #  1,19  |  1,15  |  1,11  |  1,07  |  1,04  |  1,00  |  0,96  |  0,48  |  0,45  |  0,43  |  0,40  |  0,38  |  0,36  |  0,34  |
|     #(+0,01%)|(+0,07%)|(+0,21%)|(+0,40%)|(-0,33%)|        |(+0,40%)|(-0,26%)|(+0,26%)|(-0,16%)|(+0,50%)|(+0,21%)|        |(-0,15%)|
+-----#--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+
|2,70 #  1,23  |  1,19  |  1,15  |  1,11  |  1,08  |  1,04  |  1,00  |  0,50  |  0,47  |  0,44  |  0,42  |  0,40  |  0,37  |  0,35  |
|     #(+0,46%)|(+0,38%)|(+0,36%)|(+0,42%)|(-0,46%)|(-0,26%)|        |(-0,48%)|(-0,05%)|(+0,44%)|(+0,01%)|(-0,36%)|(+0,35%)|(+0,12%)|
+-----#--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+
|1,90 #  2,49  |  2,41  |  2,33  |  2,25  |  2,17  |  2,09  |  2,02  |  1,00  |  0,95  |  0,90  |  0,85  |  0,80  |  0,75  |  0,71  |
|     #(+0,31%)|(+0,07%)|(-0,04%)|        |(+0,17%)|(+0,49%)|(-0,06%)|        |(-0,19%)|(-0,25%)|(-0,17%)|(+0,06%)|(+0,42%)|(-0,09%)|
+-----#--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+
|1,85 #  2,63  |  2,54  |  2,46  |  2,37  |  2,29  |  2,21  |  2,13  |  1,05  |  1,00  |  0,95  |  0,89  |  0,84  |  0,80  |  0,75  |
|     #(-0,03%)|(+0,27%)|(-0,27%)|(+0,33%)|(+0,07%)|(-0,04%)|(+0,00%)|(+0,48%)|        |(-0,33%)|(+0,48%)|(+0,44%)|(-0,45%)|(-0,20%)|
+-----#--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+
|1,80 #  2,78  |  2,69  |  2,60  |  2,51  |  2,42  |  2,33  |  2,25  |  1,11  |  1,06  |  1,00  |  0,95  |  0,89  |  0,84  |  0,79  |
|     #(-0,22%)|(-0,40%)|(-0,43%)|(-0,31%)|(-0,02%)|(+0,41%)|        |(+0,42%)|(-0,37%)|        |(-0,48%)|(+0,20%)|(+0,03%)|(+0,01%)|
+-----#--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+
|1,75 #  2,94  |  2,84  |  2,75  |  2,65  |  2,56  |  2,47  |  2,38  |  1,18  |  1,12  |  1,06  |  1,00  |  0,94  |  0,89  |  0,84  |
|     #(-0,12%)|(+0,16%)|(-0,39%)|(+0,22%)|        |(-0,06%)|(+0,04%)|(-0,12%)|(-0,24%)|(-0,20%)|        |(+0,37%)|(-0,10%)|(-0,41%)|
+-----#--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+
|1,70 #  3,11  |  3,01  |  2,91  |  2,81  |  2,71  |  2,62  |  2,52  |  1,25  |  1,18  |  1,12  |  1,06  |  1,00  |  0,94  |  0,89  |
|     #(+0,42%)|(+0,12%)|(+0,00%)|(+0,06%)|(+0,28%)|(-0,32%)|(+0,25%)|(-0,09%)|(+0,43%)|(+0,11%)|(-0,03%)|        |(+0,20%)|(-0,42%)|
+-----#--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+
|1,65 #  3,31  |  3,20  |  3,09  |  2,98  |  2,88  |  2,78  |  2,68  |  1,33  |  1,26  |  1,19  |  1,12  |  1,06  |  1,00  |  0,94  |
|     #(-0,42%)|(-0,35%)|(-0,09%)|(+0,35%)|(-0,03%)|(-0,22%)|(-0,23%)|(-0,40%)|(-0,29%)|(+0,01%)|(+0,49%)|(+0,15%)|        |(+0,03%)|
+-----#--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+
|1,60 #  3,52  |  3,40  |  3,29  |  3,17  |  3,06  |  2,95  |  2,85  |  1,41  |  1,34  |  1,27  |  1,20  |  1,13  |  1,06  |  1,00  |
|     #(-0,44%)|(-0,06%)|(-0,48%)|(+0,29%)|(+0,25%)|(+0,41%)|(-0,23%)|(+0,02%)|(-0,31%)|(-0,44%)|(-0,37%)|(-0,11%)|(+0,35%)|        |
+-----#--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+

Posted: **Tue Apr 19, 2016 6:21 am**

The filament diameter and the extrusion multiplier do the same thing, so you can use either one to make the change. I'm sure some people prefer one over the other, so that's why this feature request exists

Either way, now you know how you can do it with the current software if you want to start using it right away

Posted: **Tue Apr 19, 2016 1:31 pm**

I just wanted to add that I second this request. It is just logical that the filament diameter should be an extrude property...just like the printing speeds, btw.

Posted: **Tue Apr 19, 2016 9:54 pm**

The filament diameter can be stored in the "Quality" autoconfigure profile through the following tag:

Code: Select all

<filamentDiameter>3</filamentDiameter>

It requires manual manipulation of the FFF. I haven't tried to print with the profiles with the new tag, but have validated that adding the tag does change allow changing of the filament diameter. Also note, that for the Quality profiles that don't have the tag, the previous filament diameter carries over.

So you could add the following two autoconfigure quality profiles to change filament diameters, the new tag is added as the last line:
Profile #1:

Code: Select all

  
<autoConfigureQuality name="LH2_4200_OutlineFAST_FDia-3.00">
    <globalExtrusionMultiplier>0.95</globalExtrusionMultiplier>
    <layerHeight>0.2</layerHeight>
    <topSolidLayers>6</topSolidLayers>
    <bottomSolidLayers>6</bottomSolidLayers>
    <perimeterOutlines>2</perimeterOutlines>
    <skirtLayers>1</skirtLayers>
    <skirtOutlines>3</skirtOutlines>
    <infillPercentage>20</infillPercentage>
    <supportInfillPercentage>20</supportInfillPercentage>
    <defaultSpeed>4200</defaultSpeed>
    <outlineUnderspeed>0.75</outlineUnderspeed>
    <solidInfillUnderspeed>0.8</solidInfillUnderspeed>
    <supportUnderspeed>1.1</supportUnderspeed>
    <rapidXYspeed>5400</rapidXYspeed>
    <filamentDiameter>3.00</filamentDiameter>
  </autoConfigureQuality>

Profile #2:

Code: Select all

  
<autoConfigureQuality name="LH2_4200_OutlineFAST_FDia-1.75">
    <globalExtrusionMultiplier>0.95</globalExtrusionMultiplier>
    <layerHeight>0.2</layerHeight>
    <topSolidLayers>6</topSolidLayers>
    <bottomSolidLayers>6</bottomSolidLayers>
    <perimeterOutlines>2</perimeterOutlines>
    <skirtLayers>1</skirtLayers>
    <skirtOutlines>3</skirtOutlines>
    <infillPercentage>20</infillPercentage>
    <supportInfillPercentage>20</supportInfillPercentage>
    <defaultSpeed>4200</defaultSpeed>
    <outlineUnderspeed>0.75</outlineUnderspeed>
    <solidInfillUnderspeed>0.8</solidInfillUnderspeed>
    <supportUnderspeed>1.1</supportUnderspeed>
    <rapidXYspeed>5400</rapidXYspeed>
    <filamentDiameter>1.75</filamentDiameter>
  </autoConfigureQuality>

Thinking through the workflow with the dual extrusion wizard, you would need to go through each process after the wizard is done to select the Autoconfigure Quality profile. So pick the process associated to tool1 and choose the "1.75" Quality profile.

Its a bit meticulous, but if you're building a dual extruder with different extruders... you can probably handle some manual editing of the FFF.

Posted: **Mon Oct 10, 2016 1:46 pm**

I agree that the filament diameter should be stored with the material. You should be able to assign a material (with its own density, diameter, cost, etc) to an extruder and everything updates from there. Trying to control the extrusion between two filaments on a dual (or more) extrusion machine with slightly different measured diameters using a fudge factor is a hack, whereas controlling the extrusion through the filament diameter is a solution. Especially since you can measure filament diameter directly.

Posted: **Mon Oct 10, 2016 10:43 pm**

Simplify3D User Forum

[ADDED] Filament diameter should be per extruder property

[ADDED] Filament diameter should be per extruder property

Re: Filament diameter should be per extruder property

Re: Filament diameter should be per extruder property

Re: Filament diameter should be per extruder property

Re: Filament diameter should be per extruder property

Re: Filament diameter should be per extruder property

Re: Filament diameter should be per extruder property

Re: Filament diameter should be per extruder property

Re: Filament diameter should be per extruder property

Re: Filament diameter should be per extruder property